I must apologize for my poor English,in fact,the first time I paticipate in comment is just because I stroll to the webside and saw something unfavorable directed towards the band I like,and I cant′ help retorting.Ok I think I find a reason to improve my English level,after all,the poor level obviously bring about some misunderstanding.

I reclaim that I am not mean to define anything,as I said,what all we said is nothing but personal views, views at present, like tiny pieces cutted from the cake. You know, as a philosopher ever expressed,"the language is pale,the more tangible the language is,the more far away from the truth.",(of course, I am making the inevitable mistake now). .Just like different people clarrify rock music to different sorts,depending on different angles such as the dressing of band members,the degree of voice- distortion of guita and so on.It is just a kind of codes for sake of communication.when I communicate with others,I could not spread out all the possibilities.But if there is no existiences of single tiny dots,what can use to make up a picture?How would we view the world? And who can give a complete interpretation to anything?

I understand the kind of groups you refer to,such as The Beat Generation at the 1960s or around in America, I agree with your view "Punk is not really a style of Rock.",I ever heard from a musician about that,to him punk spirit is spiri of all kinds of rock music. You said" that spirit is not particularly punk.",I am not mean that too,I just think that the common thing,the essence may be found in something genius.I support to criticizing and do not avoid criticizing .By it, something can be reflected,rebuilt and improved.Actually if you are glad to say so,I am criticizing you in some degree.The question is what the way others can accept.when I can′t accept, I voice,maybe some others can,just do our own stuffs,OK?

I know what you really want to express,you hope musicians refuse something,just like Oconnor refused accept the Grammy award and refuse to be packaged and to be a so-called idol..I revere her choice,But as you said,no one knows the right future,we are not advancing the road the SUBS is experiencing,we are not tangled by a lot of complex factor in their situation.In daily life,when you make a choice,someone said you are wrong,someone said you are right,but you just make your choice. Yes, most cases the medium is liar,but it is also a necessary way to make the voice not diminished,that come back to the problem of degree you have said .Bands that surface,bands that underground,most of them, are just two different ways to sustain some voices,to make people recognise or remember what rock-roll is.Even spy might be found in the most honest group you know,so we cant define that.The speculators may sometimes get the opportunities,but they will finally became does not like a people or a ghost,and be repelled,Ido not think SUBS is the speculators.What is more,what is the ultimate meaning for the fighting?or whatever,you know I want to express.If fighting is just for things like dissatisy,destroy and violence,it may become pretext of another kind of wild ambitions,dirty desire and ulterior motives man.(By the way, I am not refer to you at all.)The ultimate meaning may come back to the the true, the good and the beautifu,or as some musician said the universal love,peace and freedom. Through the wording above is somewhat fallol to me,but you know what I want to express.You know he chinese style mode of thinking contains some images or something only to be sensed, not explained,hope you will understand.

jonny9,thanks for your views,it reflect the lack of my cognition and enlight me in some degrees,expecially your freedom wordings.
Through you said you feel boing,I still want to say,the key meaning I want to express last time is that I think we should show more respect and less blame to musician who has been borne and sacrificed so much for the things they adored and indulged,we have no rights to judge anyone,what we can do is merely provide some kind of presentation which based on our diffenent past, experiences and cognition to the world and the life.Our genuine intention is not to get an answer or persuade anyone,instead,as you see, we can see things more widely and clearly througt the collision of different throughs,at the same time we may close to the truth more,that is what rock-roll call on us to pursue always. Complying the common rules makes us combine and solid,but complying for no reason is just another kind of control and slavery,isnt it? That why I′m express my true feeling here
I don't think I had refused the conversation as well,if I don't care,I were just smile and skipped the wording what I saw.Standard depends on everybody′s inner heart,I dare not call myself a girl regards rock-roll as firm belief,it is too holy to me to bear.But I know I am trying hard to find myself and remember my original real face in the leading of rock-roll, and try to resist the dirty around me,I just believe the facing direction,What I can do now is cleaning my blood in the show and thinking of what I saw and feel,concern for the future of rock-roll.My explore way on rock-roll is no end,I am always an innocent student,maybe from your predecessor′view,(if I may say so),my understanding is surperficial,but I′m trying to figure it out seriously.
Yeah,as you say,maybe everybody sale themselves in some way,but to tell the truth,refusing facing on the irresistable things we don't like is another way of escape.The way the musician express their feelings is just a way of communication with others,how to understand it depends on personal.What they sacriced is a part of their small world,but all the strive will make contribution to the final common goal,to the wide world.Becides,they have no so much commecial fluence in my view,at least we still know their original face .If someone say he knows what punk is,it seems ridiculous to me just like someone put Bible front of me and say it is completely correct because it is just there.If I must be required to say something,punk′s spirit of revolt can be a gesture,can be a lifestyle,but as for the essence,from my humble of view, it is a call to uphold to our life flame,to keep the gas field in our heart stable and steady when facing the world,but the method of interpret it can be various.
Coming back to the culture industry,Please think about china′history through the ages,the agriculture style life and the inertia of obedience,the huge cognition and awareness gaps of people from different backgrounds...we can also see the arise suddenly magical world of materialism do make a lot of people suffering giddiness, at the same time the soul can′t keep up with the body to the aspect of society. This is the truth we can′t ignore. it needs time,but we are voice to make the numb crouds to hear the spiritual world,to keep ourselves alert .The existience of the voice,as other different responsible voices exists, balance the society atmosphere and make it operate healthy,that is enough.
As different social condition breed out different music,the core of the rock-roll is unchangeable,but something new is being added to make it sustain and develop,as always.Like human′body,every soci may get ill, but it will cure itself at the reasonable time.
People who love rock-roll and uphold rock-roll spirits always accustomed to express something in a fiere way,the most powful and uncompromising way as we comprehend,it just a tone of express, someone would know the instinction, there is no absolutely wrong and right.OK?
Welcome to correcting.