Just rereading your post above HFCAMPO, based on your observations, does that mean older foreigners are simply not welcomed in the job market and we would be beating a dead horse for trying to change it?
Is the take away from all this is that teaching in China is mainly for the young or the foolish and will be tossed aside once they are used up?
What job options do a older experienced foreign teachers have and what is a reasonable pay range?
What you've said is correct, and in hindsight, maybe this discussion was relevant only in my mind about 10 minutes ago after my 10th cup of coffee. Perhaps the job market as I've stated is too varied and different for it to be generalized into one and that probably doomed the discussion from the onset.
I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of an average job seeker. If I was looking for a job, what would be fair compensation for my time and is it a rate that the market will bear.
The best analogy I can think of is if a guy went to a Ferrari dealership looking for a commuter car. Even after the deal offered a 50% discount the buy still balks at the "high price". From both perspectives they are correct, the car is both a good deal and too expensive.
Now, is this the situation that we have in Kunming and China? Is it a fundamental problem of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole where in the end no one can be happy no matter the solution?
And I do realize this could all just be in my head and no one else feels the same way, but I wouldn't know until I asked, right?
To answer you question, I'm not looking for a job or a visa. I'm in my late 40s and will be in Kunming for a few years or maybe not depending on where life takes me.
Sorry Geezer, not trying to offend and it is not my intention to spread libel.
As I've stated, the opinions are not mine, only what I've gathered from the multiple threads on this website. If my understanding of the gist of the teacher's general complaints are incorrect then I apologize.
As to how much is enough, that is one of the main points of discussion I would like to engage in. The schools believe they are paying too much for too little service while teachers believe they are paid too little for what they deliver, so who's argument is more valid?
As to spreading rumors, I'm lost on that point. I don't see how my inquisition is spreading rumors? Or is it best to just not discuss anything remotely controversial?
I tried starting a discussion thread on KM Foreign Teacher's Job Market
but it seems to not have passed the censors so I'll try again here.
Apologies to the OP for semi-hijacking your thread but the topic is along the same vein.
Having talked to many foreign English teachers and seeing the plethora of job posting by local touts here, I really would like to discuss the reality of teaching English in China, and specifically in Kunming.
I've read through the forums and the main complaint seems to be: the schools are not paying enough, the job conditions are horrible, the owners are unscrupulous business-devils, expectations are unrealistic and yet, most seem to stay in their jobs (or Kunming) regardless, always looking to jump ship for a better paying job.
On the flip side, the schools believes the foreign teachers are overpaid, unprofessional, inflexible, and unreliable. Yet I see the same companies keep advertising the same job positions with no change to their compensation package despite obviously not being able to retain their previous hire.
So, given the two opposing viewpoints which one is more reasonable? Who's expectations are more unrealistic? Do your average foreign teacher deserve the salary they feel they are entitled to? Are the schools simply not paying enough to make it worth while for the teachers to put in the effort? Or will English teaching in China be forever relegated to the realm of the traveling circus and the snake oil salesman?
@Geezer, putting aside the politicking of the Chinese government, the oversimplification of the freedoms enjoyed in the US in her speech is very problematic.
What was the point of her analogy? That freedoms blossom in the US while withers in China? Let us not forget that those freedoms were fought for and paid for by the blood of the preceding generations. While she enjoy the labors of those sacrifices, is she ready to make sacrifices of her own? The answer, sadly, is no, as evidence by her insincere non-apology and "commitment" to spread Chinese ideals and culture. Instead of of standing up and defending those freedoms, she cowers at the hint of retribution.
To discover freedom, perhaps you can speak to the minorities that face systematic discrimination everyday, speak to the Muslim communities on how much they enjoyed their freedom, give an opposing view at a MAGA rally to see the freedom of speech at work.
I find nothing at all about her speech or its synthesis to be worth defending other than her rights to make such a speech. But at the same time, I equally defend everyone elses' response to it, CSSA included, those freedom of speech are equally sacred to me.
Granted, the suppression and control of outside the mainstream narrative is more overt in China but government control, or at least the control by the main parties of the narrative exists in America just the same, just more subtle.
The finger pointing, as you say, is the result of the two party system, the discourse and freedom is but an illusion. Outside attacks on each other, their views are nearly identical on almost all issues. Both parties have talked "tough on China", both panders and caters to the Middle East and Israel, the only difference is a matter of degrees and the facade of the institution in which they support.
"As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.'
When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy."
It cuts both ways, how about China as a currency manipulator, China is stealing our jobs, anything Chinese is viewed as suspicious by the Republican party and the American public in general as that was the narrative being pushed. Japanese companies, Korean companies, German companies, even American companies have all recently been involved in massive product recalls that poses a public safety risk and yet I don't see the same fervor as when it was a Chinese made product.
Such is the nature of politics & government and humans. Always pointing fingers and seeing flaws in others when thinking themselves to be perfect and superior.
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Chinese student apologizes after Maryland graduation speech sparks firestorm
Posted by@Geezer, putting aside the politicking of the Chinese government, the oversimplification of the freedoms enjoyed in the US in her speech is very problematic.
What was the point of her analogy? That freedoms blossom in the US while withers in China? Let us not forget that those freedoms were fought for and paid for by the blood of the preceding generations. While she enjoy the labors of those sacrifices, is she ready to make sacrifices of her own? The answer, sadly, is no, as evidence by her insincere non-apology and "commitment" to spread Chinese ideals and culture. Instead of of standing up and defending those freedoms, she cowers at the hint of retribution.
To discover freedom, perhaps you can speak to the minorities that face systematic discrimination everyday, speak to the Muslim communities on how much they enjoyed their freedom, give an opposing view at a MAGA rally to see the freedom of speech at work.
I find nothing at all about her speech or its synthesis to be worth defending other than her rights to make such a speech. But at the same time, I equally defend everyone elses' response to it, CSSA included, those freedom of speech are equally sacred to me.
Chinese student apologizes after Maryland graduation speech sparks firestorm
Posted byGranted, the suppression and control of outside the mainstream narrative is more overt in China but government control, or at least the control by the main parties of the narrative exists in America just the same, just more subtle.
The finger pointing, as you say, is the result of the two party system, the discourse and freedom is but an illusion. Outside attacks on each other, their views are nearly identical on almost all issues. Both parties have talked "tough on China", both panders and caters to the Middle East and Israel, the only difference is a matter of degrees and the facade of the institution in which they support.
"As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.'
When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy."
― Abraham Lincoln, 1855
Chinese student apologizes after Maryland graduation speech sparks firestorm
Posted byIt cuts both ways, how about China as a currency manipulator, China is stealing our jobs, anything Chinese is viewed as suspicious by the Republican party and the American public in general as that was the narrative being pushed. Japanese companies, Korean companies, German companies, even American companies have all recently been involved in massive product recalls that poses a public safety risk and yet I don't see the same fervor as when it was a Chinese made product.
Such is the nature of politics & government and humans. Always pointing fingers and seeing flaws in others when thinking themselves to be perfect and superior.