User profile: Yuanyangren

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Forums > Living in Kunming > Should you study Chinese?

I think that China's position is unique amongst other countries in the region. China is the world's second largest economy and predicted by many reliable sources to surpass America to become the largest economy within the next 5 years or so. This means that China will have a bigger say in economic, political and even social terms in the course of the future, just like England and America have had over the course of the past century or so.

Japan has definately peaked, so now it's China's turn to shine. In all SE Asian countries, English is the language of business and most educated people there can speak it. Few foreigners bother studying those languages as I've pointed out before, but China is different. In no other Asian country have I found so many foreigners who can speak the local language [Mandarin Chinese in this case] as here in China - it's partly due to the increased interest as a result of China's rise but also the fact that it remains far more difficult to get around in China with English than in most other regional countries, as a general rule.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > Clubs in Kunming

TuDou77 - Well if Kunming had a sex tourism problem, you'd never notice it - this is not Thailand, Cambodia or the Philippines. On an average day I can walk through downtown and not see a single foreigner. Try that in Bangkok or Hanoi - indeed, there are few places I've been to anywhere in the world (and I've been to a lot of places!) where it's still possible to see only locals and such a large amount of homogeneity - it's like going back in time 50 or more years when most countries where like this. I mean, I thought the world has become a global village with people of all races and creeds everywhere you go, but Kunming has been left behind it seems (for now).

Therefore to conclude I'd say that the 100 foreigners (I know it's way more than this, but this is what it seems like to me) living in Kunming who want to go to clubs should be allowed to pick up girls here. Foreigners are so rare in this city that most girls look at us and think "wow" look at this guy, maybe I should go out with him, because it's cool to be associated with a foreigner. Equally we look at the attractiveness of the local women and know that unless we are complete assholes that we stand a good chance. Hopefully we will treat them right and not use them in the wrong way. All in all, most foreigners go to clubs in Kunming to have a good time and maybe pick up some women, just like the local men do and just like people all over the world do when they go to clubs.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > Should you study Chinese?

To live effectively in China, particularly outside of Shanghai or Beijing etc. (and of course Hong Kong, SAR but that's a different story altogether) knowing at least some Chinese is almost a must, unless you don't mind using mime or carrying a dictionary with you all the time or a Chinese speaker to help you with almost every task - this becomes a nuisance after a while, because you really don't want to bother people (often the same person) every time you go out just because you need to buy 1kg of potatoes or explain directions to a taxi driver, for example.

I've found there are more English speakers in Kunming than I previously thought, but in general, there aren't many and English speakers here are only found in very specific fields (e.g. English speaking doctors, check-in agents at the airport etc.). Certainly you can't just speak English with everyone you meet like you would in Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, Malaysia etc. even if not everyone in those countries speaks English either, but all the important people you will deal with, will. Hotels, many taxi drivers, department stores, travel agencies all have English speaking employees by default in those countries. Except in very isolated areas, you don't have to even bother asking "do you speak English?", because of course they will...with that many tourists and the fact that the native languages in all those countries are barely spoken outside their own countries, hence few foreigners would be expected to speak them. Not so in Kunming or China in general; you will still need to be able to speak at least basic Chinese in most hotels just to get a room in Kunming - and more to be able to make anything more than a very basic request to the staff.

China is different to most other countries in the fact that most everything is done in the local language, information wise, technology wise etc. Go to any foreign airline site that serves China for example. Go to the China page and often it will only have Chinese as a language option, some airlines may also have English too, but many don't. The same airline might have a Thailand or Vietnam page only in English. This inspite of those countries not being native English speaking countries - therefore I think it will take a long time before China moves onto the "English speaking bandwagon" like many other regional countries and countries around the world have done in general - sure it is producing more and more English speakers, but a complete change in mentality is needed before you'll see more English on everything from shopfronts to company websites to employees in shops being able to speak it here (including in Wenlin jie; I'm talking about places where as many as half the customers are foreigners!)

And about English speakers in France, well, there are certainly more than in China (as a percentage of the population at least). Although getting by with English in rural France might be difficult, it won't be in Paris or other large cities even if French people won't admit to being able to speak English because they don't want to, in many cases they can. This is simply no comparison to China.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > General Visa advice

Someone mentioned converting a Z to an L tourist visa is possible in Kunming. For those of you that are on study visas it is not possible to convert them to tourist visas inside the country - i have tried both in Shangri-la and Kunming only to be told they must be extended as study visas (which I eventually did, but it was expensive). Therefore, if you were ending your study course and wanted some more time for travel or to figure out your options, a quick trip to a nearby or neighboring country to obtain another tourist visa would be your best option.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > New airport in Kunming

@detroitweb, you say you have 3 friends that work there? Are they foreigners or Chinese? I have never heard of a foreigner working on a construction site in China, and even in the development stage of most projects in Yunnan at least, few foreigners seem to be involved (or so it would seem).

Back on topic. I have also heard about proposals to link the new Kunming airport with Europe, Australia etc. but I'd say if that were to happen at all, expect only China Eastern or other Chinese carriers to add any such capacity. There is simply no way European or Australian, North American etc. carriers would have any interest in such a route for the time being, not before they all fly to more profitable destinations such as Guangzhou and Chengdu first (some of them do, but not all) and then and only then would Kunming even be considered.

Many airlines from the region such as THAI have reduced capacity to Kunming in recent years, from 7 to 5 flights per week from Bangkok and no more service from Chiang Mai. Vietnam Airlines generally uses smaller, older aircraft on the Hanoi-Kunming route rather than A320s, which it previously operated on some flights on this route. Therefore, time will tell if the new airport will attract back some of the interest in terms of greater flight frequencies and capacity that Kunming seems to have lost over the last couple of years.

If anything, I think the new airport could and should do what it can to attract more low cost carriers. First of all, Kunming residents don't have the incomes to support a large number of only legacy carriers as their only travel choice, when other airports such as Chengdu have low cost carriers such as Air Asia. Low cost carriers would thus be able to link Kunming with more regional cities, something it should focus on first, rather than trying to attract interest from airlines to link cities in other continents (which would be convenient, but not realistic at this time, not until Kunming becomes another Guangzhou or Shanghai).

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Yeah there are lots of hebrew speaking travellers in Vang Vieng these days. Same with regional tourists from Thailand - frankly given that Thai and Lao are nearly the same language I don't see how a Thai speaker can't read Lao, but apparently many can't hence the reason for the Thai signs you saw. Same in Thailand - at petrol (gas) stations near the Lao border, which are popular with Lao motorists you can see signs in Lao next to the Thai since there are some subtle differences between the two languages.

@Senorboogiewoogie, in Laos everything is flexible due to the power of money aka corruption. I was in Vang Vieng around midnight back in 2009 and it was still noisy in parts, but generally quiet outside the center of action.

Also, while perhaps not a good idea, every foreigner living in Laos knows you can sleep with a Lao citizen of the opposite sex in the same room if you are discreet about it and you'll only get in trouble if you piss someone off. I also think that the government only sees the images of westerners in Thailand and the Philippines "buying" girls at girlie bars and wants to maintain a more lowkey image, but naturally no Vietnamese or Chinese (or Thai) truck driver would be without his karaoke and Lao prostitute in the border provinces. The reality is that prostitution is as big in Laos as anywhere else, but maybe just a little less visible. However, in Vientiane there are large numbers of local girls with western or other foreign "boyfriends", or in genuine relationships.

Haha, well I don't think I was that pessimistic, and I do agree with you on some of your points - although being quite knowledgeable about languages myself, there is more overlapping of the dominant language from the more economically powerful country into the less dominant one than the other way round - i.e. despite what you said, there is very little Lao spoken in Vietnam, but the other way round there is quite a bit of Vietnamese understood in Laos. Lao officials on the Lao-Viet border can usually speak some Vietnamese, but Viet officials generally can't speak Lao. I have been there and know this for a fact. Same with Viet officials on the Chinese border - they can speak Chinese, but Chinese officials speak only Chinese and English, not Viet.

Vietnamese is also only understood amongst a very small minority of people on the Thai side of the Lao border, not many as you say...same with Thai in Myanmar but not Burmese in Thailand (except amongst the immigrant workers and some Burmese signboards near the Burmese border) in Thailand. As mentioned above, Chinese is quite strong in northern Laos, but Lao is non-existant anywhere in Chinese territory except when it comes to the Dai language, which is fairly close but not exactly the same language.

I've also found that the majority of South-East Asian Chinese language students here in Kunming don't speak much English at all for some strange reason. The ones back in their home countries that didn't major in Chinese are often quite good at English, so I guess there aren't that many polyglots around as you say - 2 languages seems to be what the average person knows and not more.

Although if we're on the subject of which SE Asian language to learn IN ADDITION TO English, which will continue to be important, then it must be Thai. Thai is understood throughout Thailand, Laos, western Cambodia and the Shan State of Myanmar. No other SE Asian language is as dominant as Thai.

This is reflected in the much greater interest amongst Chinese students in studying Thai than say, Vietnamese. I have met tons of Chinese students interested in, or with at least one semester of Thai behind them, but only two who had studied Vietnamese.

Sounds good in principle, but learning to speak all SE Asian languages would require you to be some kind of linguistic genius and probably half a lifetime of devotion. Speaking only one of the languages from the region, say Thai or Burmese or Vietnamese, wouldn't help much in neighboring countries since each language in the region is not mutually intelligible with only limited overlapping...so such an approach would mean limiting your engagement to one country.

In parts of northern Laos and northern Myanmar, no attempts are made by Chinese settlers to learn the local language - everything (signboards, menus etc.) is in Chinese and locals [Laotians and Burmese] who can't speak this foreign language [Chinese] are left out.

Also, I don't think English should be forgotten - despite various levels of English fluency in the region, English is still the only global lingua franca and the global language of business. English is the only language you can successfully use in all SE Asian countries. While it's great to know Thai, Lao, Burmese etc. it isn't realistic unless you are living in those countries. I have also noticed that just like with English, Chinese learners of these SE Asian languages really struggle, and when encountering a local that speaks good English, the conversation will usually inevitably switch to English since the local will assume the other party can't speak their language well enough. It's only once fluency is achieved that this is overcome.

My recommendation would be for both Chinese and other foreigners interested in investing/doing business with the region to know how to speak English fluently, followed by becoming proficient in at least the basics of their host countries' language to at least show some interest and respect. Apart from those interested in becoming translators however, I personally think time and money is better spent gaining technical skills and then applying some language skills on the side - not the other way round.

I've done that and I'm doing quite well. I am an engineer that has worked in Vietnam and Thailand and I speak Thai and some Lao with an almost native accent (and can read and write both languages) - something that is of enormous benefit to me, but I have achieved this as a side passion rather than as my main job. Still, I barely speak Vietnamese and don't have the energy or time to work on it - in any case, doing business isn't difficult as most educated people there speak English anyway and I have a very good friend who helps me so it's all good. Ditto for Cambodia and Myanmar.

There is an error in this article. Lao Airlines flies only twice (2) a week from Luang Prabang to Jinghong, not daily. They only just restarted this service recently and I highly doubt there would be enough demand for a daily service at this time. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this service were to once again be suspended in the near future. Luang Prabang-Kunming flights are said to be restarted again in the near future too, but no date has been given.

Check out online copies of Lao Airlines' Champa inflight magazine for more details.

Reviews

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Horrible tasteless, thick-crusted "cardboard" like pizzas that are a far cry from what they should be like. Way overpriced too. Wine may be good, but why bother when the nearby Prague Cafe makes much better pizza at a more reasonable price?

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Great Mexican food and ice cream, excellent Raspberry smoothies and an overall good atmosphere. Can't do much about the low ceilings on the second floor, but the early closing time could be adjusted, after all, the nearby French Cafe closes at 1am.