User profile: Yuanyangren

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Forums > Living in Kunming > How are Black-Aqmericans treated?

Anyway OP, to make your stay in Kunming and China as memorable as possible, you shouldn't worry too much about discrimination. Just realize that it does exist, but just try to go about your days as best you can and understand that whatever discrimination you may encounter is usually quite subtle and often born out of ignorance and lack of exposure to immigrants more than anything else. At least in Kunming, foreigners are still rare and thus few locals have had any real dealings with them so hence they are still treated as a kind of novelty, which for someone like me who does not like fame, is annoying, but at least it's never threatening.

Take a look at this article to give you some perspective: www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/02/09/090209fa_fact_osnos

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Forums > Living in Kunming > How are Black-Aqmericans treated?

@HFCAMPO, sorry but your last sentence hints at ignorance and lack of knowledge about what consitutes racism. Let's not get off topic here by comparing America to China but let me just comment on your "getting pulled over by the police in AmeriKa (it's spelled AmeriCa dude)" comment: In a country as diverse as America, that kind of crap is not going to happen.

But yes, in China, if you are white, black, an ethnic minority, i.e. anyone not from the majority you WILL experience discrimination, and yes, it is called racism. Just because racism in China may be more subtle than in other nations, it doesn't mean there's no problem.

Similarly, how do you know that the people you walk past aren't saying something negative about you behind your back? I mean, if I spent all my time worrying about what everyone might be saying about me as I walk on a street in Kunming I'd surely lose a lot of sleep, but at least I'm not in such a state of denial to think that people will treat me the same as locals. I can guarantee you that there WILL be locals talking about you behind your back; this wouldn't happen if you were considered to be a local.

China is a homogeneous nation and homogeneous nations are by definition proud nations that will discriminate against minorities even if they don't want to admit it. In Asia, Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore are all much more heterogeneous than China and similarly, much more used to foreigners, thus discrimination will be felt much less in those countries than in China. The same comparison can be made between the USA/Canada/Australia and Poland/Russia/Ukraine etc. As a minority in any of the first three countries no one will even notice you, but in the latter three countries discrimination does occur quite frequently, particularly in Russia.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > How are Black-Aqmericans treated?

@Calgrad unfortunately, there is some prejudice held against foreigners and people with darker skin in China in general. This includes SE Asians such as Thais (those without Chinese ethnicity) and Malaysians with only moderately tanned skin, the former receiving a bad rap in the eyes of many local Kunmingers according to my Chinese friends. This is not so much because of their appearence (indeed, there even seems to be some negativity towards ethnic Chinese Thais) but probably has something to do with cultural differences and possibly superior cultural attitudes on the part of both parties.

When it comes to black Africans and African Americans etc. the Chinese view is often one of extreme ignorance and occassionally downright prejudice, with mothers regularly shielding their kids once sight of a black person is made, although this is by no means the reaction everyone will give you. Most people will simply ignore you, just like they ignore me given that Kunming is a big city, but if you walk long distances from place to place there will probably be the odd person or two who decides they need to comment on your appearence or something - they'll probably do it behind your back, but that's not necessarily any more reassuring. It must be said that most racism in China is subtle and very rarely involves violence. So don't worry about that - what you will have to deal with are stares, comments and other forms of ignorance, many of which will be quite subtle in nature, but discriminatory nevertheless.

I will never understand the racist attitude by some Chinese that you have to be white to teach English, assuming that's the kind of work you are looking for. However, I think it could be that because China is so homogeneous, and the Chinese are used to associating someone's physical appearence with certain countries, they may not be aware that America, Australia, Canada etc. are actually very multicultural and that there are plenty of non-white people living there who are also citizens of those countries and fully integrated etc. This likely leads to the view that black people are "non-native" speakers and thus not qualified to teach. In addition to this, the prevailing negative attitude towards black people doesn't help either.

Personally, I think there are many people of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds who are very well qualified to teach English, probably much more than I am (I am an engineer, but in the past I did teach a bit of English on the side). For starters, I don't have any teaching qualifications and I don't even like teaching, it's mundane and offers no advancement opportunities, hence my lack of motivation in the past.

Therefore, get out there and fight any prejudice you may encounter! Be self-aware but don't let anyone get to you. Find a job and try your best to ensure that you won't be rejected because of what you look like. Most of all, try to make the most of your experience in Kunming. Like others have said, once people get to know you, the barriers do break down.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > Studying + Teaching part-time

Come on guys...everyone knows that the Chinese authorities turn a blind eye to "teachers" working on student visas. Nobody cares as long as you don't commit a "real" crime or upset anyone.

China isn't the US yet when it comes to enforcing action against overstayers and those that have worked illegally. Nor does working illegally mean you can't come to China again if caught.

Consider this example: I know of a young Lao Chinese language student who used to "study" at Yunnan University of Nationalities. This kid, who was 21 or so at the time, didn't really do much in the way of study, but only showed up to class once a month or so, the rest of the time partying at night and sleeping during the day.

Once his money ran low, he was forced to drink at the dorms, and that's where the trouble started. One night he was drunk and became violent, hitting another student and then smashing a door (this is after he had already damaged something in his own room).

The kid was deported to Laos, but his parents simply applied for a new passport and Chinese visa and lo and behold, he came back to Kunming to study at another university within a few months.

Something like this couldn't happen in Australia or the USA - if you get deported you can't automatically come back, even with a new passport.

Not that working illegally as a teacher is a good idea nor is smashing a door (haha) but, when it comes to the former, many schools will insist it's OK if asked. I'd say, keep a low profile and don't worry.

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Forums > Travel Yunnan > Websites in Laos and Vietnam.

What blobbles said is exactly right. OP, what made you think that YouTube is blocked in Laos and Vietnam? Just because they are "communist" and next to China doesn't mean they are anything like China! In fact, Laos is about as open an economy as you can find in this part of the world and they are trying to simplify doing business as much as possible.

YouTube is 100% accessible in both countries, and as far as I'm aware, there are generally no blocked websites in Laos, unlike in China. However, facebook is an on/off affair in Vietnam, though it can generally be accessed.

The only other country in the region (apart from North Korea of course) where the internet is heavily censored is Myanmar, but with the recent opening up of that country, this could change quite quickly in a positive direction (some years ago, even hotmail and yahoo mail as well as yahoo! news etc. were either inaccessible or very difficult to access in Myanmar).

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Yeah there are lots of hebrew speaking travellers in Vang Vieng these days. Same with regional tourists from Thailand - frankly given that Thai and Lao are nearly the same language I don't see how a Thai speaker can't read Lao, but apparently many can't hence the reason for the Thai signs you saw. Same in Thailand - at petrol (gas) stations near the Lao border, which are popular with Lao motorists you can see signs in Lao next to the Thai since there are some subtle differences between the two languages.

@Senorboogiewoogie, in Laos everything is flexible due to the power of money aka corruption. I was in Vang Vieng around midnight back in 2009 and it was still noisy in parts, but generally quiet outside the center of action.

Also, while perhaps not a good idea, every foreigner living in Laos knows you can sleep with a Lao citizen of the opposite sex in the same room if you are discreet about it and you'll only get in trouble if you piss someone off. I also think that the government only sees the images of westerners in Thailand and the Philippines "buying" girls at girlie bars and wants to maintain a more lowkey image, but naturally no Vietnamese or Chinese (or Thai) truck driver would be without his karaoke and Lao prostitute in the border provinces. The reality is that prostitution is as big in Laos as anywhere else, but maybe just a little less visible. However, in Vientiane there are large numbers of local girls with western or other foreign "boyfriends", or in genuine relationships.

Haha, well I don't think I was that pessimistic, and I do agree with you on some of your points - although being quite knowledgeable about languages myself, there is more overlapping of the dominant language from the more economically powerful country into the less dominant one than the other way round - i.e. despite what you said, there is very little Lao spoken in Vietnam, but the other way round there is quite a bit of Vietnamese understood in Laos. Lao officials on the Lao-Viet border can usually speak some Vietnamese, but Viet officials generally can't speak Lao. I have been there and know this for a fact. Same with Viet officials on the Chinese border - they can speak Chinese, but Chinese officials speak only Chinese and English, not Viet.

Vietnamese is also only understood amongst a very small minority of people on the Thai side of the Lao border, not many as you say...same with Thai in Myanmar but not Burmese in Thailand (except amongst the immigrant workers and some Burmese signboards near the Burmese border) in Thailand. As mentioned above, Chinese is quite strong in northern Laos, but Lao is non-existant anywhere in Chinese territory except when it comes to the Dai language, which is fairly close but not exactly the same language.

I've also found that the majority of South-East Asian Chinese language students here in Kunming don't speak much English at all for some strange reason. The ones back in their home countries that didn't major in Chinese are often quite good at English, so I guess there aren't that many polyglots around as you say - 2 languages seems to be what the average person knows and not more.

Although if we're on the subject of which SE Asian language to learn IN ADDITION TO English, which will continue to be important, then it must be Thai. Thai is understood throughout Thailand, Laos, western Cambodia and the Shan State of Myanmar. No other SE Asian language is as dominant as Thai.

This is reflected in the much greater interest amongst Chinese students in studying Thai than say, Vietnamese. I have met tons of Chinese students interested in, or with at least one semester of Thai behind them, but only two who had studied Vietnamese.

Sounds good in principle, but learning to speak all SE Asian languages would require you to be some kind of linguistic genius and probably half a lifetime of devotion. Speaking only one of the languages from the region, say Thai or Burmese or Vietnamese, wouldn't help much in neighboring countries since each language in the region is not mutually intelligible with only limited overlapping...so such an approach would mean limiting your engagement to one country.

In parts of northern Laos and northern Myanmar, no attempts are made by Chinese settlers to learn the local language - everything (signboards, menus etc.) is in Chinese and locals [Laotians and Burmese] who can't speak this foreign language [Chinese] are left out.

Also, I don't think English should be forgotten - despite various levels of English fluency in the region, English is still the only global lingua franca and the global language of business. English is the only language you can successfully use in all SE Asian countries. While it's great to know Thai, Lao, Burmese etc. it isn't realistic unless you are living in those countries. I have also noticed that just like with English, Chinese learners of these SE Asian languages really struggle, and when encountering a local that speaks good English, the conversation will usually inevitably switch to English since the local will assume the other party can't speak their language well enough. It's only once fluency is achieved that this is overcome.

My recommendation would be for both Chinese and other foreigners interested in investing/doing business with the region to know how to speak English fluently, followed by becoming proficient in at least the basics of their host countries' language to at least show some interest and respect. Apart from those interested in becoming translators however, I personally think time and money is better spent gaining technical skills and then applying some language skills on the side - not the other way round.

I've done that and I'm doing quite well. I am an engineer that has worked in Vietnam and Thailand and I speak Thai and some Lao with an almost native accent (and can read and write both languages) - something that is of enormous benefit to me, but I have achieved this as a side passion rather than as my main job. Still, I barely speak Vietnamese and don't have the energy or time to work on it - in any case, doing business isn't difficult as most educated people there speak English anyway and I have a very good friend who helps me so it's all good. Ditto for Cambodia and Myanmar.

There is an error in this article. Lao Airlines flies only twice (2) a week from Luang Prabang to Jinghong, not daily. They only just restarted this service recently and I highly doubt there would be enough demand for a daily service at this time. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this service were to once again be suspended in the near future. Luang Prabang-Kunming flights are said to be restarted again in the near future too, but no date has been given.

Check out online copies of Lao Airlines' Champa inflight magazine for more details.

Reviews

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Horrible tasteless, thick-crusted "cardboard" like pizzas that are a far cry from what they should be like. Way overpriced too. Wine may be good, but why bother when the nearby Prague Cafe makes much better pizza at a more reasonable price?

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Great Mexican food and ice cream, excellent Raspberry smoothies and an overall good atmosphere. Can't do much about the low ceilings on the second floor, but the early closing time could be adjusted, after all, the nearby French Cafe closes at 1am.