@bosnian, well we could say that the original poster is implying that reverse discrimination is also evident in China, at least in the case of this club.
Also, as I mentioned before, China is not so bad when it comes to these things (at least not anymore). Although one poster mentioned discrimination occuring at a swimming pool (although that is not government sanctioned of course) although such practices are rare from what I've seen (apart from opportunistic overpricing, but that's a different story altogether). In any case, most businesses in Yunnan see so few foreigners there would be no point in trying to charge different rates, either more or less. Apart from the French Cafe, Salvador's etc. which receive foreigners everyday, the vast majority of businesses here have maybe 1 foreigner a day or less.
I find different pricing regimes based on nationality offensive, even if foreigners get in for free or for less than locals - generally it is the other way round, but even in this case it's not really acceptable.
Anyway, I second the comment above; I'd much rather go to a tourist attraction in China where I won't be charged extra by a greedy, racist government [like Thailand] that only sees tourists as dollar signs and which is why the only thing that matters to that government is that they can get as many tourists as possible —> this year the target is 19 million, next year maybe 25 and in 10 years perhaps more than the population of the country itself, who knows?
Anyway, I digress, so back on topic. Would I want to go to this club because I'm going to get a discount? Not necessarily...I'll just go to any club with my friends because either a group of people will invite me to join in their drinking parade and/or I might even offer to buy the second round of drinks for them. It didn't work last time, because everyone was so drunk by 4am that they weren't able to drink anymore, although at least I offered to pay, which was civil of me i guess.
Actually, at the foreigner's dorms at YUN although they feature paint peeling off the walls and damaged cabinets etc. at least you get a private bathroom with a hot water shower. The Chinese student's dorms just adjacent to the foreign student's dorms feature 8 students to a room and a shared bathroom for i don't know how many students with a stench you can smell 10m away. Privacy is an alien concept and it's only a bit better for foreign students who have 2-4 people per room (usually 4).
At Yunnan University there is a greater diversity of nationalities. There are more Koreans and more westerners than at YUN.
I think going overland would be a fun experience, though after factoring in all the costs, it may be cheaper (if only slightly) to fly to Mandalay or Yangon, both of which can be reached from Kunming on non-stop flights. In fact, the only international flight departing and arriving at Mandalay airport originates in Kunming (China Eastern).
Closed? I think if you get a visa arranged beforehand, with the right permits and guide (should be arranged from Kunming if possible) you can go in (at least exit China for Myanmar). I don't think visas on arrival are an option, or ever were an option for this crossing.
I hear a guide is also supposed to accompany all foreign visitors heading south of the border town of Mu-se until at least the town of Lashio, 8 hours south. Also, I doubt such a busy border crossing would be closed; the town of Mu-se is just an extension of China anyway and the vast majority of China-Myanmar trade flows through this crossing.
Get more information by contacting a Kunming travel agency and the Myanmar consulate here in Kunming.
This is crazy! Sounds like the kind of thing you hear about happening in the US, not China. Anyway, they were arrested quickly and yes, Liumingke1234, they can and most likely will be given the maximum penalty for their crimes. I believe in China 14 year olds can be tried as adults. It doesn't say how old these teenagers are, but my guess is they are certainly in their mid to high teens.
Very sad indeed...I hope the new tenant is also a foreigner who opens up a similar bar or restaurant to you guys. Good luck with the future and hope to visit you in Lijiang or Shangri-la. In any case, stay in China! Restaurants/bars like yours really make places like Kunming feel cozier.
@Peter99, I agree that there could be many more independent Chinese tourists in Chiang Mai, or indeed in many other parts of the world in the future.
I have seen many independent Chinese tourists, many travelling by themselves in places like Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia. They usually have enough English to at least order from a menu though. It's kinda ridiculous for people like the young Chinese tourists above to not know what they "are ordering". If you ask me, except at Wenlie Jie and a few downtown areas, it's much more difficult to know what you are ordering in China!
Contrary to what is stated in this article, I don't think the Chinese can take away Thai jobs or properties because unlike in Laos, the Thais are fiercely protective of their rights and know what they are. Also, foreigners can't own land even if they become married to Thai citizens. With the exception of jobs requiring Chinese language skills, Chinese citizens wouldn't be able to find work in Thailand either and they can certainly forget about working in protected sectors like farming etc. so I think the fears raised above are unfounded unless Thailand opens up more but their restrictive property and work laws are probably in place to avoid such a scenario.
However, for now, the Chinese train project from Kunming through Laos connecting all the way to Singapore is not going to happen, but the Thais seem to be confident about a possible Japanese investment for some domestic HSR (high speed rail) lines in the near future. Personally, I would still put my money on the Chinese coming through eventually, but it might take 10+ years to happen so the original opening date of 2015 is now nothing more than a pipe dream given that the Chinese have now scaled back on HSR projects given safety issues, the resignation of the railway minister etc.
The road through Myanmar (Burma) from Mae Sai/Tachileik to China has too many restrictions on travel and since the Mae Sai crossing only allows travel to/from Mae Sai it can't be used by anyone planning on travelling overland between Thailand and China via Myanmar territory; thus Chinese and Thai/third party tourists/businesspeople etc. travelling overland between Thailand and China must go through Laos (or alternatively, Laos and Vietnam). I hope that with the recent positive developments in Myanmar that an overland route connecting Thailand and China and an upgrading of the Chinese/Burmese border post to an international one will happen, but until it does it won't become an option for anyone.
I wouldn't put my money on low-cost flight options to Kunming happening anytime soon, though eventually they should come through put this will depend entirely on demand for such services.
@invisible, the railway link from Kunming to the Vietnamese border has existed for like 100 years but only now does it look like it will reopen again after being closed for roughly 10 years now. As such, this will mean you can once again travel by rail from Kunming to Hanoi and beyond to Ho Chi Minh City. When it opens is unclear, but I'd say give it a year or so.
@pickley - hitchhiking is possible, but not really recommended due to the low cost of public transport and possible risk of things going wrong, though having said that hitchhiking is far safer in most parts of East Asia than in the USA for example. But you can still try anyway and it is surely a very interesting way of travelling.
I think Chinese truck drivers (starting in northern Laos, not far from the border) or Lao truck drivers (who wouldn't go much beyond Mengla) would help you cross the border, and then you could try flagging another vehicle to go further north. Alternatively, Chinese tourists driving themselves in southern Xishuangbanna or possibly in Laos itself might be willing to help you. It would be a good idea to offer some food, drinks or something for the ride and truck drivers often expect some payment anyway, but if you are nice and give them some food, cigarettes (if they smoke) or something else then that should make them happy enough without the need for monetary compensation. Every experience is different so you'll need to just try it out and see what happens.
@russell, it's Ji. There's a much faster way of translating English to Chinese these days and requires no travel outside of your own home: it's called google translate.
Anyway, from this itinerary it looks like the writer is about to enter Vietnam before he enters Laos, unless he backtracks first. Normally to travel from Kunming to Laos one would pass through Yuxi, Yuanjiang, Simao (Pu'er), Jinghong (Xieng Hung or Chiang Rung), Mengla (Muang La) and finally Mohan before reaching Laos. Of course while you can't cycle on the expressway, I have seen western cyclists on the highway between Jinghong and the border (there is currently no expressway there).
Therefore taking the backroads between Kunming and Jinghong would be the fastest way, but this cyclist's itinerary sounds more interesting and passes a more beautiful region of Yunnan - I too was very impressed by Yuanyang (hence my GoKM username right hehe), not to mention Lvchun and the Vietnamese borderlands before reaching Hekou.
What do you mean by "foreigners"? Everyone who is a non-citizen of Myanmar and wants to travel there is a foreigner. I doubt Burmese citizens require visas to return to their homeland.
Horrible tasteless, thick-crusted "cardboard" like pizzas that are a far cry from what they should be like. Way overpriced too. Wine may be good, but why bother when the nearby Prague Cafe makes much better pizza at a more reasonable price?
Great Mexican food and ice cream, excellent Raspberry smoothies and an overall good atmosphere. Can't do much about the low ceilings on the second floor, but the early closing time could be adjusted, after all, the nearby French Cafe closes at 1am.
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Chinese teens murder seven before arrests
Posted byThis is crazy! Sounds like the kind of thing you hear about happening in the US, not China. Anyway, they were arrested quickly and yes, Liumingke1234, they can and most likely will be given the maximum penalty for their crimes. I believe in China 14 year olds can be tried as adults. It doesn't say how old these teenagers are, but my guess is they are certainly in their mid to high teens.
The Box says goodbye
Posted byVery sad indeed...I hope the new tenant is also a foreigner who opens up a similar bar or restaurant to you guys. Good luck with the future and hope to visit you in Lijiang or Shangri-la. In any case, stay in China! Restaurants/bars like yours really make places like Kunming feel cozier.
Chiang Mai's Chinese invasion
Posted by@Peter99, I agree that there could be many more independent Chinese tourists in Chiang Mai, or indeed in many other parts of the world in the future.
I have seen many independent Chinese tourists, many travelling by themselves in places like Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia. They usually have enough English to at least order from a menu though. It's kinda ridiculous for people like the young Chinese tourists above to not know what they "are ordering". If you ask me, except at Wenlie Jie and a few downtown areas, it's much more difficult to know what you are ordering in China!
Contrary to what is stated in this article, I don't think the Chinese can take away Thai jobs or properties because unlike in Laos, the Thais are fiercely protective of their rights and know what they are. Also, foreigners can't own land even if they become married to Thai citizens. With the exception of jobs requiring Chinese language skills, Chinese citizens wouldn't be able to find work in Thailand either and they can certainly forget about working in protected sectors like farming etc. so I think the fears raised above are unfounded unless Thailand opens up more but their restrictive property and work laws are probably in place to avoid such a scenario.
However, for now, the Chinese train project from Kunming through Laos connecting all the way to Singapore is not going to happen, but the Thais seem to be confident about a possible Japanese investment for some domestic HSR (high speed rail) lines in the near future. Personally, I would still put my money on the Chinese coming through eventually, but it might take 10+ years to happen so the original opening date of 2015 is now nothing more than a pipe dream given that the Chinese have now scaled back on HSR projects given safety issues, the resignation of the railway minister etc.
The road through Myanmar (Burma) from Mae Sai/Tachileik to China has too many restrictions on travel and since the Mae Sai crossing only allows travel to/from Mae Sai it can't be used by anyone planning on travelling overland between Thailand and China via Myanmar territory; thus Chinese and Thai/third party tourists/businesspeople etc. travelling overland between Thailand and China must go through Laos (or alternatively, Laos and Vietnam). I hope that with the recent positive developments in Myanmar that an overland route connecting Thailand and China and an upgrading of the Chinese/Burmese border post to an international one will happen, but until it does it won't become an option for anyone.
I wouldn't put my money on low-cost flight options to Kunming happening anytime soon, though eventually they should come through put this will depend entirely on demand for such services.
@invisible, the railway link from Kunming to the Vietnamese border has existed for like 100 years but only now does it look like it will reopen again after being closed for roughly 10 years now. As such, this will mean you can once again travel by rail from Kunming to Hanoi and beyond to Ho Chi Minh City. When it opens is unclear, but I'd say give it a year or so.
Kunming to Laos by bike: Part II
Posted by@pickley - hitchhiking is possible, but not really recommended due to the low cost of public transport and possible risk of things going wrong, though having said that hitchhiking is far safer in most parts of East Asia than in the USA for example. But you can still try anyway and it is surely a very interesting way of travelling.
I think Chinese truck drivers (starting in northern Laos, not far from the border) or Lao truck drivers (who wouldn't go much beyond Mengla) would help you cross the border, and then you could try flagging another vehicle to go further north. Alternatively, Chinese tourists driving themselves in southern Xishuangbanna or possibly in Laos itself might be willing to help you. It would be a good idea to offer some food, drinks or something for the ride and truck drivers often expect some payment anyway, but if you are nice and give them some food, cigarettes (if they smoke) or something else then that should make them happy enough without the need for monetary compensation. Every experience is different so you'll need to just try it out and see what happens.
Kunming to Laos by bike: Part II
Posted by@russell, it's Ji. There's a much faster way of translating English to Chinese these days and requires no travel outside of your own home: it's called google translate.
Anyway, from this itinerary it looks like the writer is about to enter Vietnam before he enters Laos, unless he backtracks first. Normally to travel from Kunming to Laos one would pass through Yuxi, Yuanjiang, Simao (Pu'er), Jinghong (Xieng Hung or Chiang Rung), Mengla (Muang La) and finally Mohan before reaching Laos. Of course while you can't cycle on the expressway, I have seen western cyclists on the highway between Jinghong and the border (there is currently no expressway there).
Therefore taking the backroads between Kunming and Jinghong would be the fastest way, but this cyclist's itinerary sounds more interesting and passes a more beautiful region of Yunnan - I too was very impressed by Yuanyang (hence my GoKM username right hehe), not to mention Lvchun and the Vietnamese borderlands before reaching Hekou.