@wtf
So let me get this right.
Certified teachers work for the greater good of teaching and for almost no pay becasue it's passion and the uncertified less professional ones are just trying to cash in.

Why are there so many uncertified teachers here in Kunming and China, working like crazy (as crazy as others), honouring their contracts, taking part in training seminars, writing articles, well even books about education. Even trying new methods and ways to teach more efficient in this strange country.
Plus you guys know that uncertified teacher get less pay, right. i started working for 40 RMB an hour in Beijing many years back.

The demands of certified teacher I posted earlier were not fictional. I had a teacher demanding 350rmb per hour....FULLTIME besides the whole package living, plane ticket etc.
That doesn't even make sense.

Going back to the point we are all the same when we smelled the blood of teaching, when we get excited about classes, seeing progress, getting paid well for it.

It requires work ethics, professionalism, and good willing attitudes much more than certificates and degrees. Teaching is an art and techniques may hep but they don;t make masters.

@wtf??

Please excuse me for not being a perfect human being for I have missed 4 little words in a post that contained 1,167 words.

The reason I had though you were a Chinese national was because you used Chinese characters in your post and seems to understand Chinese. Well, that is what I get when I assume I suppose.

Regardless of all that, it is at least evident that you are not a native speaker. It is obvious because while you seem to understand the meaning of the words, you only undestandr superficially and don't really seem to grasp the connotations, idiosyncrasies, and jargon of "oral" English the way a native speaker would. The word "lure" might have a negative connotation in your native tongue, but in English, the way I used it, it means "attract".

Second, do you not see the winking face that I put at the end of the post to mean that it is a friendly post? The winking face looks like this ;)

Tilt your head 90 degrees to your left as if you are going to sleep and look at it again. The post merely meant Since you are having trouble recruiting qualified teachers and since you said you are willing to pay top dollar for one, if you clearly tell the GoKunming members what is it you are looking for and what you are willing to pay, perhaps there are some very qualified Teachers that would be willing to work for your school and thus you can attract them.

The above was an attempted cordial response, now please, let me be not so cordial.

@wtf??, WTF?! Dude, seriously? What have I said that was passing judgement or implied you were lying? That you appear to be a Chinese national? It was not meant to be negative just an assumption. But based on your reaction, are you ashamed to be mistakened for a Chinese national? Are you somehow insulted by it? It was an honest mistake and you blew it out of proportion. Aren't you being too defensive about it? And it wasn't even the main point of my post. You must have the same sized ego as the "other" guy which shall remain nameless. People project their own emotional state of mind when reading internet posts so I recommend you take a chill pill as what everyone said here is pretty objective and cordial, and honest; it is you who are being the jerk and flaming everyone.

You know what, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder and not even worth my time so I will no longer respond to any more of your post. Perhaps if you caught me at some other time I would have been more forgiving but after having coming down from another argument, I just don't need this. I had almost achieved Zen, then you had to come along.

Good day, Sir!

@Tonyaod
First of all, thank you for stopping to respond to my posts, that way I'll be able to take a rest from your damn replies!
On another hand, let me point how smart you are, when you're stating that English is not my first language because I wrote it by myself in a previous post and I'm quite sure you red it and you are trying to use that to blame on me that I would not have understood the meaning you want to give to one word. You'll be nice to stop to consider others for more stupid than they are. The verb lure is related to words that mean "bait," "deceit," and "invite." Often, when lure is used, there is a nefarious implication. And when you are using it, in the context you are using it, it does not sound very positive. If you further check on specialized websites/forums you'll find out that it indeed has (or might have) a nefarious implication. So, please go back to your dictionnary to find out that this word does not only mean "attract" in a positive way, like you are trying to say. I don't buy it. But because, indeed I'm not a native English, I'd be happy to get another [neutral] native's point of view on this point (Dazzer, please not!)
Also, you think that because you put a nice ;) at the end, it means your post is friendly. Ok, look at this one : Tonyaod you are a pathetic, boring and crappy troll ;) ;) ;) that's a very friendly message, isn't it ?
And if you are not entirely reading other users posts, could you please refrain from posting any reply, because you and only you are creating that kind of weird and boring situation where we are not discussing about the OP anymore (sorry for the other readers).
Do I need to remind you that you used those Chinese caracters at first in your previous post. I just copied them from your post to show you that I got your meaning and trying to get the things down!!! Either you are doing all that on purpose (that's what I think) or you are indeed very stupid!
About the rest of your "not so cordial message", that seem to be a very nice and accurate description of yourself.
Except you and Dazzer (that you were defending in previous posts, he's your brotha right?) I do not see when I have been flaming any other user.
I rather think that the discussion is (was) quite interesting like this topic is (until/without you interfering with quite mindless messages).
Please keep your promise and keep silent, thank you.

PS: troll troll troll, don't feed the troll, I know, sorry for that. I'll stop to feed Tonyaod from now on ;) ———-oh a friendly message again

"I had a teacher demanding 350rmb per hour."

And I want to fuck Angelina Jolie. But she's not returning my calls.

don't blame it all on dumb teachers. the owners have got a lot to answer to too. Ref pay. It is unfair to ASSUME that teachers are asking for more money becuase they are all stupid and greedy. so where does the figure come from? qualified board certified teachers in international programmes can earn 20-30k/m and more plus the full package in China. Even in kmg. they get equivalent or equivalent + to teachers pay in home country. Another factor is that all of us have heard of being shafted by a chinese owner (spanish are worse btw), hell they treat thier own staff like surfs why not the teachers too. they plead poverty while they drive around in big cars, they tell us our aim to please while theier aim is too squeeze.

@Dudeson, and anyone who is interested in my 8-year experience teaching in China.

You and I seem to have a similar experience in China. When I first came here I saw it as a fertile field for IT as that was my background. I had planned on getting involved at the ground level and work my way up, get some experience, and perhaps eventually becoming a consultant or starting my own company. Well, the realities set in and the IT industry was and still is not mature enough for me to be economical. So then the goal became staying afloat and secure an income stream.

Obviously, as many have found out, the best job market for foreigners is teaching English. When I first started back in '05, I was only making 2K a month and I was satisfied with that since I didn't have a background in education; I had nothing to offer so it seemed fair. I now make a lot more than 2K and aren't shy about demanding what I think is fair since I now bring a lot to the table.

I think professionalism and staying power speaks volumes for our industry as it is what's needed to gain experience. Experience is definitely more valuable than theoretical knowledge in terms of relating it to what we do on a daily biases. This point is backed up by the fact that if you talk to anyone involved in the military, they will tell you that the NCOs are the ones that keep the unit together on the battlefield, not the generals. And the classroom is our battlefield.

I can honestly say that when it comes to teaching Chinese students, I can out teach a Rhodes scholar (an actual story) because I have experiences with the Chinese environment, understand the Chinese student mentality, and know how to navigate the restrictive and convoluted rules we have to play by. I can anticipate what will happen and can balance the demands/expectations of the student and the school with what I feel they need to learn. Where as the Rhodes Scholar in question spent all his energy combating a system that will not budge. He screamed and fought and insisted on doing things the right way according to his own (academically-respected) research on pedagogy, it was a terrible experience for both parties. In the end, who served the needs of the students and the administrator?

All this debate between experience and qualifications is valid but to put it succinctly, experience or qualification depends on the needs of the situation. If you are looking for someone with mechanical knowledge to fix your car, do you want a Ph.D graduate in Engineering to fix it or a mechanic with lots of experience working on different types of cars? If you were to build a rocket engine, would you still use the same mechanic?

To teach in Chinese classrooms is like fixing a car, a fancy degree in it of itself does not mean they are "qualified" to teach without any experience. If that was the case then why are doctors required to do internships and residencies before they can start their own practice? I'd rather have someone with experience.

Now, to run a school or to be on some kind of academic committee making educational policies, someone like we most likely would not qualify since I have the experience to implement policies but no knowledge on how to formulate an educational policy in the first place, nor do I know the theories and research behind it.

To sum up, for what most schools want in China, someone who can run a classroom and get the students to memorize vocabulary and grammar rules, experience out weighs formal education or training. If however, the position calls for candidates to be an education consultant and craft a four-year comprehensive educational program, than formal education becomes very important.

One last note, I had originally imposed a self-exile and swore to myself that I would not get involved with another GK debate, however, education is now a passion of mine and I felt compelled to share my experience for what its worth. I do not wish to be sucked in into another pointless argument. If there are specific questions regarding teaching in China and the many pitfalls then I would be more than willing to share. Otherwise, I will refrain from posting pointless banter. And I do apologize to the GK community, (but not wtf) for my last post as it was very pointless and just to further feed the troll. It was a long and frustrating day at work and it gotten the best of me.

Cheers to all~

1st choice experience (depends on amount and type) and teaching quals (paper), 2nd choice experience only, 3rd choice quals only, but a good attititude. 3rd choice is a risk, many will not stay for year two (mutual choice)but most will finish the contract (unless they are really shafted, or grossly lied to). point to note, teachers who skip off are generally agreived with good reason and you generally only hear the managements side of the story. ive learned from a experience (difrent kind) that if an employer complains about the last teacher, best not to work there

"if you face a teacher supposed to help you to progress in Chinese and when you ask : When/why use "不" and/or "沒 ...", would you accept a reply like : euuuh, huummm, oohhh, ok maybe it'd be because what what ... "

So what you're really looking for is not necessarily someone who is certified/qualified/professional but someone who understands how the language works. The latter is not exclusive to the former.

My suggestion is for you to spend a week or two teaching others and see how able you are. See how excellent and how adept you are at the craft, then get back to us. In all honesty, you don't sound very intelligent so the chances are you'd probably struggle with it.

Btw, obviously the school in question cannot hold onto teachers because it is basically not a very good school and this undoubtedly stems from a combination of factors, including pay and the resultant culture of crapness that it inadvertently aims for.

Ran across an article about whether having a masters degree improves education. I thought it is somewhat relevant to this discussion.

articles.baltimoresun.com/[...]

stateimpact.npr.org/[...]

Amazing the insecurity of posters who can't handle disagreement without either insulting or getting defensive, as if they have to defend themselves alla time.