I've been living in China with my Chinese wife for the last four years. My visas were extended L visas, easily renewed each year.

Now, with the new visa categories, I have been issued with a Q2 visa for 180 days only. I have been assured by the PSB that it will be readily renewed at the end of the valid period. The visa allows for only two re-entries, as opposed to multi-entries on the L visas.

There are two aspects of the new Q2 visa that leave me, for want of better words, quite breathless. Firstly, on each application, my wife has to present a letter "inviting" me to "visit" her in our shared apartment where we have lived for the last three years. No comment...

The second aspect is a real head spinner and free-wheels deep into Kafka territory. On the bottom of the visa are two notations, one in Chinese and the other in English. The English notation states that I'm "Permitted to stay until (date of expiry) for this time, and to stay for 180 days each time since the next entry." Say what?! My wife read the Chinese notation and explained it thus: After using the first re-entry, I begin to use, from the date of re-entry, the 180 days of my next visa (which I would apply for at the expiry of my current visa).

If your mind can't get to grips with this, the following may help. My Q2 visa was issued on Sept 1st and expires on next Feb 27th. On Sept 29th, I may have popped down to Hong Kong for a quick visit and re-enter mainland China the next day on Sept 30th, 30 days after the visa issue date. Now, according to the notation on my visa, I have entered the "stay for 180 days each time since the next entry" period. So now I'm living in China on the 180 days of my next visa, which I will apply for before Feb 27th. At this point, my new visa will be valid for only 30 days, as I will have already used 150 days of it since my return from Hong Kong.

Imagine if I had gone to Hong Kong on Sept 1st and re-entered the next day. My next visa would have expired before I'd had chance to collect it!

We has a set of unworkable regs begin July 1st. The current set of regs effective September 1st. I foresee a new set of regulations coming out.

It would be really useful if there was some consultation going on with interested parties. Not just, writing stuff by committee.

I am always confused by all the different categories of visa's. My wife is chinese and last fall i was issued a 1 year residence permit. Will i be allowed to renew this permit at the end of this month?

@tallamerican

You should try to apply for the Q1 visa instead of the Q2 in order to get your Residence Permit. Read my comments below.

@gingernut

My Chinese is a bit poor but from my understanding reading the links I have provided below is that the main difference between Q1 and Q2 is that Q1 is for stays over 180 days and requires proof of your relationship to the Chinese National while Q2 is for stays under 180 and the Chinese National only has to claim relationship in the invitation letter without submitting proof. Another logistical difference is that with the Q1, it is single entry but upon entry you need to apply for a Residence Permit. Once you have that then you can enter as many times until the expiration of the permit. With the Q2, you are staying China under your visa and is limited by the number of entries stamped in the visa. Q1 is what is used to be considered L visa and is the one you should apply for. Not sure why the PSB told you to get a Q2 visa instead, perhaps Kunming is not issuing Q1s or maybe because it is easier, paperwork wise, for them to do so.

Now, I'm not sure about this but I don't think it would be the case that they would count the days of the visa in which it hasn't been issued yet, as in the example you give. My hunch is, without having seen the notation on your visa, is that it means each time you stay, you may only stay up to 180 days, which since your visa is only valid for 180 days, would not be relevant to you. The language is due to the fact that according to regulations, your Q2 visa can be valid for up to 5 years but you are limited to 180 days upon each entry.

For example, I get a Q2 visa with the 5 year maximum, from 2013/1/1 ~ 2017/12/31 with 5 entries. What this means is that within this time period, I can enter China 5 times for a maxim stay of 180 days each. Theoretically I can go to HK on the 180th day and upon entry on the same day, I would get another 180 days. This would equate 2.5 years of continuous stay but after I leave the 5th time, I can no longer enter again using this visa since I've used up the 5 entries, however, my visa is still technically valid since it hasn't expired yet. Under this scenario can I apply for another 5 year Q2 visa after 2.5 years or do I have to wait until the visa expires in 2018 before I can get another Q2 visa (or any visa) is up to the discretion of the visa issuing office.

In your case, the Kunming PSB decided to issue a 180 day Q2 visa with 2 entries and a maximum stay of 180 days. When you leave for HK on Sept. 30th and come back, you will be on your second entry allowing you to stay in China for up to 180 stays, however, you can not enjoy the entire 180 days because your visa would expire before then. The tricky part is when you apply to extend your Q2. Will you have to leave the border and come back? If you can get it done without leaving, does the 180 day count reset upon renewal or do you need to leave once you've hit 180 days since the the last stamp of entry, and when you do, does that count as your second entry on your new extended visa?

Please have your wife verify this as all of this was written in Chinese and my Chinese isn't that good, also, the Kunming implementation might be different as well.

Good luck.

***PLEASE DO NOT TAKE ANY OF THE ABOVE AS DEFINITIVE, IT IS ONLY MY OWN INTERPRETATION***

From Chinanews website
www.chinanews.com/hr/2013/07-27/5091387.shtml

A Chinese-American Website
www.chineseofchicago.com/Content.aspx?nid=4275

Chinese Embassy official website
www.china-embassy.org/eng/visas/adr/

The Q2 visa says it applies to foreigners visiting Chinese Nationals. Suppose I want to visit my Chinese fiancé, to prepare for our big day. That is true, but do you think that would fly?

If so, wouldn't everybody with a Chinese friend just ask them to invite them in and get 6 months no hassle?

What am I missing here?

@rocket

I think that's the loophole here and it's up to the local visa issuing office to determine the validity of the claim on the invitation letter. Technically, I can have a friend in China claim I'm their legally wedded husband and absence of any proof, the visa office will make a determination on the plausibility of the claim and either issue or deny the visa.

I think this is in line with the visa process at American consulates. You can provided all the documents that the process requires to the T, but if the interviewing officer just doesn't like the way you look, they can deny your claim without giving any reason. Ask JJ and Janice about their experience on this matter.

I think for now the Q2 visa will be very simple to get until people starts to abuse it like the student visa now; then there will be a crackdown on it's use.

Also keep in mind, this is a new thing so it remains to be seen how the finalized process would look a few years down the line as it gets streamlined.

Thanks Tony. I'll try it on Monday.

The fellow who was dealing with me could speak good English and thought I could apply for a Residence visa, and judging by the stars and strips on his shoulders I determined I wasn't in the presence of some dude that had just come off the farm. I had all the required papers, including marriage certificate, so we were on the same page.

He left the room and came back five minutes later with the "rule book". He pointed to the middle of page whatever, written in Chinese, of course, and said I was only entitled to a Q2 visa. "That's the law," he said when I pointed out that I was a family member i.e., spouse, and should be entitled to a Q1 visa, and he added "There are lots of Chinese men married to Vietnamese women and these women are only entitled to a Q2 visa." Well, how can one argue with logic such as that...

Rest assured, come renewal time, I'll be better prepared!

Clearly your case echoes the one of the Chinese man with the Vietnamese wife then! ... :/

I'm having similar troubles trying to get the new student visa that allows you to have a part time job.. Nobody seems to know what's going on. It's really frustrating.

@ gingernut

I'm lost. Did you marry a Chinese wife or a Vietnamese wife? Also, the rules states that in addition to visiting a Chinese national, theoretically a relative of a foreigner with a valid residence permit can also apply for a Q1 visa. For example, if I had a residence permit that is valid for at least 180 days from today's date, my relative should be able to get a Q1 visa and then upon entering China, apply for a RP themselves, it would then be synced up with my RP, i.e., both of our RP would expire on the same date. So if your spouse is not a Chinese national but otherwise has a RP that is valid past April of next year, you should be able to get a Q1 visa as well.....according to the rules.