GoKunming Forums

teachers visa without degree

OceanOcean (1193 posts) • 0

@tigertiger
In my experience most (nearly all) Chinese teachers in Middle Schools just have a basic teaching degree.

@RobCambell
Faking a degree and fudging a resume to get a visa?? I couldn't live with the uncertainty of being in China illegally! Anyhow, my (private, language) school requires originals of documents and would, I think, spot a fake pretty quickly.

@OP
Qualifications for a visa are one thing, but teaching skills are (as others have rightly pointed out) quite another. My school has many "qualified" applicants who think that an ability to communicate in English is all they need to teach it. But if they aren't able to demonstrate teaching ability we simply don't employ them, however qualified they are on paper. Hopefully you have that covered, too.

Tom69 (151 posts) • 0

I agree that an English teacher needs to have a relevant degree as the basis for obtaining a work visa and being employed. Unless you really can't get a job as an engineer after graduation, or as a lawyer, accountant etc. becoming an English teacher is being underemployed and employers are right not to employ such applicants. I couldn't imagine that an employer in the west would employ an engineer as an English teacher - it simply wouldn't be possible. Only a relevant Bachelor of Arts degree in English, teaching, linguistics etc. would qualify you for the job. Also, these days most young people are capable of attending university and obtaining a degree, so this requirement for obtaining a Chinese work visa is not unreasonable - but please dismiss job descriptions for teachers that say "any degree is OK". I only agree with this notion if you hold a Bachelor of Arts degree or similar, not a technical degree as already mentioned.

When it comes to the 2 year work experience requirement - that can be fudged a little bit. If you are young, armed with a degree but no experience and want a teaching job (or any other job you may be qualified for) in China, just talk with some people you know back home who work for relevant companies who can put in a few good words for you just in case the Chinese authorities contact them (however unlikely this may be) after you put up some fake "experience" with these companies on your resume just so you can pass the basic requirements for being issued a work visa. However, my understanding is that one requirement may not be bypassed that easily - age. I think you have to be aged at least 24 to qualify for a Chinese work visa, not only 22, the general minimum age when many young university students graduate.

The Dudeson's (1106 posts) • 0

@Flengs
First to clarify about the Z-Visa, in China there are only a handful of schools that are registered to issue workvisa for the postition as (foreign) teachers. The schools not holding this license or certificate are still able to help you with a work-visa but not as teacher instead as consultant, or office admin bloke. So working for that company is legal but not as foreign-teacher. In short it is equally illegal just more difficult to enforce for the authority.

I know more teachers getting in trouble with Z-Visa than business Visa, the Z Visa is more comfortable, for sure but don't think it's safe.

So in the end it doesn't matter if you work on a Z-Visa or whatnot-Visa, for schools not allowed to employ foreign teachers. I think the only school in KMG allowed to employ foreign teachers is KIA or official (registered) Int. Schools. So don't worry to much about it. I don't like it the way it works but what can you do?

@all posters seriously believing that a degree in teaching proves anything
...it doesn't the only thing it proves is arrogance, not accepting criticism or advise. Or inacceptance to anything new that hasn't been covered in one of the lectures or books about Art, Education, Linguistics, plus it being discussed for hours before they actually agree to give it a try, if agreed upon.
Of course there are some amazing wonderful teachers holding a teaching degree but to get one of those walking by the office is a lottery win and trust me, treat them like your own child they are worth every penny or minute invested in them.
I met one and hired one of them. A wonderful time.

I am consulting schools for about 5 years I have 15 years of teaching experience and a General Education certificate that didn't need University or College.

I have interviewed teachers for Schools and Institutes and one out 10 good teachers, was a teacher with a degree in the field, others had too but they were a disgrace to the profession and a 'Diva' would be the right word to explain their attitute and paychecks demands.
I am still interviewing teaching degree holders, hoping one day I will be proven wrong.

Teaching is an Art, it needs skill, analytical skills, extreme social skills, patience, and dynamic abilities, self-criticism, out of the box thinking.

90% is skill and 10% is techniques. So University degrees don't mean anything, (for being a good teacher), it will only limit your abilities to think out of the box. Although it is good to learn techniques and good theories, and may be helpful, so enjoy studying but keep your mind open. Not saying that studying isn't a good thing but it is overrated in my opinion at least in the teaching field.

The Top 7 Best teacher's former professions :
1. Landscape Gardener in U.S.
2. Insurance salesman U.S.
3. Paratrooper German

4. Musician Philippines

5. MBA Philippines
6. U.S. Marine U.S.(obviously)
7. Fine Art's Major (African)

GoK Moderator (5096 posts) • 0

I would have said that the most important qualification for a teacher, generally, is experience. As has been said, teaching is an art. I would also add that it is a vocation. Some people are really good at it, others, despite certification as teachers, are not.
The best teacher I ever had was a butcher by trade. However, the Chinese authorities do not recognise time served as a butcher as a qualification for teaching. I have yet to meet a graduate butcher. Although I have known several Master Chefs.

OceanOcean (1193 posts) • 0

@Dudeson's "I think the only school in KMG allowed to employ foreign teachers is KIA or official (registered) Int. Schools."

Certain private language schools are registered to employ foreign teachers, too eg Robert's School, Shane, etc.

GoK Moderator (5096 posts) • 0

Some of the Chinese public schools are also allowed to employ foreign teachers.
The private 'schools' are different to the private language/training centers. If they have school status they are classed as an education institute, and (big assumption on my part) may well be able to get the permissions for employing foreign teachers. Something that the training centres may find more difficult.

The Dudeson's (1106 posts) • 0

Yes of course Chinese schools can employ foreign staff, but teachers are a different story. Universities and Colleges are an exception they, of course, can employ foreign teachers.

To my knowledge Shane and Roberts are not officially permitted to employ foreign teachers at least not to the amount they have.

I don't oppose the idea of that, quite contrary, let schools have teachers if needed, it's not the teachers you should worry about but acamdemic leadership and management to make sure quality is top.

I think the law should be revised to make sure that teachers can do their job. And China is in dire need of teachers. But at the moment they make the teacher the scapegoat for everything.

My point was, the Visa issue. It is almost impossible to get a 'REAL' Teacher-Work Visa. I know only one person who has it, issued by the real PSB in Shanghai, not an agency or another school and whatnot.

The law is a bit blurry in that area and every gov official says something different. Some say it's according to the space of the school, and if it's a school or not. If it is registered as a school then all teachers need to have a at least a bachelor in the language taught or teaching /psychology, and I guess most don't and hence all the Visa's issued are not the real thing.
Some gov officials make it to the amount you register for etc. so it is very uncertain.

Again the whole teaching Visa is a funny and crazy thing.
In general I'd say any Visa works in the end it's the employer responsible for your Visa situation and your (Visa relaed) deportation if that would ever be necessary.

flengs (109 posts) • 0

Great info, thanks! I'm a self-taught teacher, without any piece of paper but loads of experience. I teach toddlers and use my background in clowning and theater to develop my own teaching methods. Those are very successful, results are great and both the kids and myself are greatly enjoying the lessons. But the problem is I don't have a working visa and never quite figured out what would be the best in my situation. I'm pretty high-profile so I at least need to make it a little bit more legitimate. I'm working in a few schools around Kunming and I guess none of them has an official licence to employ foreign teachers. But I guess I can subscribe as an administrator or something. That at least would take some pressure off. Do I need a degree for getting such a visa? What are the requirements?

YuantongsiYuantongsi (717 posts) • 0

Your employer needs to apply for approval to hire foreigners. Once they have that then they apply for your work permit or foreign experts permit. (You need to have a degree) and your employer needs to get a certificate to say they have tried unsuccessfully to find a Chinese to fill the position they want you to do. Then you apply for a Residence Permit.

If your employer can't get approval for employing foreigners or you can't get a work permit (no degree) then keep on going as you are and have a back up plan (ie be on the next plane out of China) if the PSB gets involved.

OceanOcean (1193 posts) • 0

In response to @Dudeson, and just for the record, Robert's School is definitely permitted to employ foreign teachers. Their foreign teachers (I'm one) are fully quaified and have official Residence Permits (= year-long multi-entry "visas") obtained through the Kunming Education Authority. I believe Shane and some other private language schools are also similarly registered to employ foreign teachers.

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