@aaronb
Thanks for your insights and the heads up. Of course my beef was not with the social make up of Kunming or Gokunming expats but I did detect the 'conservatism' you talk about in some of the posts. Like I said, I wasn't looking to pick a fight with anyone on here nor were the 'expats' my problem so it's all good.

I'll take on board the opinion in your point 2 even though you're equivocal as to how you'd characterize my treatment lol. Thanks

Alright Arron and Zitony, how do I make this easy.

Writing in general about how racist a certain type, race, minority of people is, makes you .......taaaadaaaa....'Racist'!

Actually to be correct 'only'- just biased or racially prejudiced but still the same ballpark...and before you get mad, check out what I found online.

Definition of racism:
1) The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or

abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...
2) Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different

race based on such a belief.

And Zitony I thought this is exactly what you try to avoid or prevent from happening to you and by confirming the point of Aaron "Of course Kunming is racist" without ever actually even being here...well what do you want me to say. This is so funny, and as they say in french: 'connerie'

Sidenote: 'gestalt' way doesn't make any sense in German, it would rather be 'vorgegeben/den leichten Weg'...-gestalt means "figure, character, shape'.

Back to the point! This is China's most culturally diverse Province with 5 major religious groups peacefully (compared to other nations) co-existing and I am certain this can only be from Kunming's famous racism...haha

Zitony I recommend to stay away from Yunnan or whole China, because you will find exactly what you are looking for since you can't open your eyes for the tolerant sides of China/Yunnan and thus, just confirmed my guess.
Actually I thought you wanted to really figure out if KMG is racist, also stay real this not an Utopian Province or country, where people hug each other all day for their individualism. Wish it would be, though.

It only has the same racial prejudices you and aaron seem to have but all my black friends have experienced very little, not more or less than I did and most of them enjoy living in China.
I say again a good chat with those people, at least for that day, gave them a different idea. You can't save everyone, so screw the rest.

p.s.
You have never experienced racism in England? Wow lucky you. I'm caucasian and racism found me after 8 hours into England, still being in Heathrow.

@dudeson,

I think the 1st way that you make it is easy is by re-reading the title of the thread. It is not called "Are Dai people racist?" Or are "Han people racist?" Or "are Chinese people racist? "

Would you also think there is something intolerably self-contradictory if the title was " Is New York racist?" (which it is, btw).

The next thing to make it easy would be to not put too much faith in the sociopolitical sophistication of a dictionary. If there is any particular topic that you are very familiar with, try looking it up in the dictionary-you will probably be disappointed by the inadequate definition you find. That is why it is not called an encyclopedia.

In fact, there are quite a few people who devote their life to studying "racism" that would find the definitions you quoted to be totally wrong at best, and, you guessed it-racist- at worst. (because they would consider racism to be a kind of social system, not a kind of attitude). By any definition, racism is not simply discrimination. I don;t think you can be racist against someone for being a plumber, Yankees fan, or a social democrat.

Certainly, some people DO say things like, "Chinese people are racist".

But this is only in itself an absurd and racist comment if the person is presenting Chinese people as a race. Usually, they aren't unless they are stupid and/or drunk, and in that case, your criticism would stand.

I heard someone make this same comment last week, and in the context of the long conversation we were having, it was clearly not racist. I took it to be an abbreviation for something like:

"Practices which promote racial stereotypes are currently practiced, in an unqualified way, with much less apparent censure, and with more common acceptance, in many parts of the current society in the country China,at least compared to where I from. This is a visible trend stemming from social conditions in a certain place today, and not from anything like an inherent characteristic of the Chinese race, which probably doesn't biologically exist anyway."

No one is going to say all that. At least not on an online forum, because he is banking on the fact that all that is a given, so he doesn't need to spell it all out for you. It becomes a given once the person convinces you that a. they are not an idiot b. they are using terms, ways of speaking, themes, questions, etc. that wouldn't make sense without underlying universalist assumptions. I think zitony's posts meet both requirements.

1) I think, it just is that easy. You write a title question defining your point of view to confirm the attitute you bring to a place that you have never visited under the disguise of the opposite of what you asking. Especially set in a question that is impossible to answer. No way easier than that, to put it in the way I did. I am not here to say it is right or wrong what I wrote but nontheless it's a valid point.

2) " Is New York racist?" (which it is, btw). Of course it's selfcontradictory becasue how can you define that N.Y. is rascist? What are the facts behind it, sure there are individulals that are racist, but I am sure that if you would research it to the tiniest little bit and all N.Y.'ers, of whom most are of a different race or minority, other than caucasian (and who is your base group, caucasians, asians..etc?)...and you will see that N.Y. is as racist as any other place in the world. Racism is no more or less in any specific place in the world, what you seem to differ is political correctness. There is a lot of research about this you can find essays about that online.

3) Dictonary Schmictonary.
Alright then, then open your encyclopedia and you will see that it even further confirms the definition I posted, which is btw. from an ecyclopedia

4) In fact they (the people devoting their life to study racism=Anthropologists) wouldn't, becasue they agree on certain definitions of what outlines racism (it's called empirical science) from there they build their research and results. But just check it yourself you will see in their essays that racism doesn't just start with people wearing white robes and smack up people with dark skin, but with tiny little stereotypes and prejudices and usually escalates through many possible triggers.
Btw. that's why I was indicating that Kunmingers are not a race but since it was a beautiful example to see aaron and zitony at the root of racism, but since Kunming has more than 4.000.000 Han Chinese followed by the Yi minority with only 400.000 (only 10% of the Han population). Showing that you have to be careful with statements like; "Kunming is racist"

5) Certainly, some people DO say things like, "Chinese people are racist".

....Yes that is a racist comment, I don't say that those people are racist but nonetheless it is a racist comment. And my advise is to find the reason why some people perceive China as racist, becasue no race or demographic on this planet is natural born racist. There is a reason for it and you will see and research proves it is through education and media that stereotypes and racism is enhanced or even promoted (to name some of the roots of the problem).

6) "Practices which promote racial stereotypes are currently practiced, in an unqualified way, with much less apparent censure, and with more common acceptance, in many parts of the current society in the country China,at least compared to where I from. This is a visible trend stemming from social conditions in a certain place today, and not from anything like an inherent characteristic of the Chinese race, which probably doesn't biologically exist anyway."

....It's not true, go to the media in any country in the world and you will find racism/ stereotypes and prejudice. In all its forms, individual, group or open or subtile racism similar to the what you quoted "unqualified way with a less apparent census."

What you differ again is the use of P.C. plus the trend in racism you experience in China is actually incorrect as a research paper about racism compared over the globe indicates.
I agree it won't reflect each individual view of the Chinese population but it's was build on a proper scientific research. So the best we got so far and I agree better than what we have here in the forums.

Little hint, watch mainstream Hollywood movies and check what minority most of the bad guys are ? it's incredible that almost every low level bad guy is African American/Hispanic/Asian...just anybody but caucasian. In general nothing reflecting the real bad guys in the real world according to Police Reports of those areas and districts.

And that's just movies.

7)
Of course noone will put this definition in the beginning of his/her statement (first becasue it's partially incorrect) plus for the obvious potential 'noise' in their communication model.

Zitony's post meets one requirement and that's the first. He is not an idiot but in terms of point b.) "they are using terms, ways of speaking, themes, questions, etc. that wouldn't make sense without underlying universalist assumptions."

.....He (Zitony) doesn't have the background knowledge[scientific], terminology and definition to indicate what racism is [according to his own statements], to find his own racial prejudice [or it's softer version generalisation of a social demographic] or the ones of others and he has pre-set mind indicating that he is not trying to find a real answer to his question but rather confirming his prejudice=that Kunming is racist. which "is" as we know now, -a racial prejudice towards a certain racial/social group of people, that he has never met, since he has never been to China.

Plus he says he fell in love with a romantic illusion of a place and people he hasn't seen yet and feels frustrated about when getting closer to it, I think he qualifies for the point a.) of your post.....that he is an idiot.

Hi Zitony, I didn't mean that! You are not an idiot...for real.

It just sounded so good in my head when I was writing it in the end of the post.
I did too I fell in love with China before I got here, and was quite disappointed when I saw the real "thing".

But I made the best out of it and found the things I was missing in the little details and in some of the wonderful people I met here, (especially in Yunnan).
I'm here happily for more than a decade. So I qualify as idiot as well, according to my own statement.

Or let's agree that we are both smart fellas, what do you think?

I only read your first point and stopped reading after that. If you believe what you wrote, then here is not enough common ground between us to have any real conversation. Not a mere difference of opinion, but a difference of what constitutes a topic, a question, and an an opinion.

For those who might be interested I wrote this, and only this-

New York is not a conglomeration of individuals, it is the name of a place and the name of a government and of institutions with actually existing practices, customs, mores and laws. There has been quite a bit of study highlighting the fact that the amount of people of color who are stopped and frisked in New York is greater than the amount of people of color residing in New york. A far higher higher percentage of adults under 45 (of color) in New york,will be detained, searched or surveilled by the city than whites wiil.

Crucially, this does not match up to higher crime or conviction rates at all. Lacking that correlation, most people call this racism. People of color do not sell or consume drugs at a higher rate, but undergo far more drug related searches.

It doesn't require the individual attitudes of new yorkers to be positively racist. This is how the world works-environments exist, customs exist, groups exist, practices exist. It does not come down to personal attitudes or to individuals.

@Aaron, Sorry to hear that it's only possible to have a conversation with you if one agrees with your opinion. It's a pity that you didn't read further. As I said I don't say I am right or wrong but most of the stuff I write is based on facts and some even on common sense.

For example that racism doesn't exist naturally more or less with a certain group of people or specific races. It's a question of upbringing and don't let PC fool you by disguising racism.

Wow! It's a very interesting theory that NY only consist of laws, "name of a place and the name of a government and of institutions with actually existing practices, customs" but no conglomeration of individuals.
And since the law enforcment seems to be you base and root of racism. I wonder if 34.500 uniformed police in a city with more than 18.000.000 people is an accurate foundation to bring up a statement, that NY would be racist.

@Aaron:
It doesn't require the individual attitudes of new yorkers to be positively racist. This is how the world works-environments exist, customs exist, groups exist, practices exist. It does not come down to personal attitudes or to individuals.

Actually it does require a certain amount of individuals and to be exactly you need all NY individuals to be racsit to state; that NY is racist to be correct.

Or you need...51% at least to state that the NY majority is racist.
And that means you need all (or most) groups to be included not just the cops.
I agree customs exist, groups exist, practices exist but the way you put it, is not how the world works. And it comes always to the individual and personal attitutes and it's good that way.

I have a question though. If the Chicago fire-department would be considerably stupid, would you also say that the whole city of Chicago is dumb? Or would you state that the FireDept. is stupid?

I think you should do a bit more checking and research before you define racism.

But I really like the idea that NY is not a conglomeration of individuals...that's a good one :D