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Do Kunming Drivers Know they are Inconsiderate and Dangerous

laotou (1714 posts) • 0

@JM
Kong Kong is nicer - but they drive on the opposite side - things are more expensive - opportunities more competitive - although it is Asia's Zurich or London.

Yunnan and Kunming especially is still backwater-ish - very very country bumpkin behavior with a severe if not total lack of culture - pollution, spitting, litter everywhere - dog poop, vomit (from binge drinking). The weather is nice - but the pollution from construction, industry, and prolific cars and heavy trucks makes Kunming look more like a beijing or chongqing.

The people are selfish - everyone has to be first (like F1 drivers) - as noticed by the left turners jumping the light and cutting in front of thru-traffic. A common misconception is the traffic police are real police - they're not - they're traffic "guides". The real police wear guns (don't argue with the guy with the gun). They try to enforce rules but are impotent as the penalty system is ineffectual as noted by @tigertiger.

The lack of courtesy, attention to traffic rules is indicative of the culture - so yes, as an investment banker I'm sure you've experienced most meetings where the pervading philosophy is "yahoo! free money" - a common concept amongst Kunmingers seeking investment - no thought about ROI, risk management, exit strategies, etc, just vague allusions to "you'll make a lot of money" male bovine feces (b-sh*t).

HK, like any international city, has a wide variety of excellent international cuisine. Kunming - mixian.

That said, Kunming people - if you make it past the selfish louts, frauds, and other outright criminals - can be genuinely warm, accommodating, naively helpful, easy going, relaxed - things missing from larger cities.

Where some see challenges, others see opportunities - albeit fraught with some excellent third world risk (fraud, waste, corruption, etc). The culture is ingrained - it'll take quite a long time to migrate this culture into quality, honor, integrity - that's both the challenge and the opportunity.

As for HK - the education system can be excellent, but also remember they had a severe health issue with foot & mouth disease, bird flu, and of course, SARS. We lived in HK for almost a year - the doctors were reasonably competent - but the "civilized" insurance system mandated use of dubious lowest bidder labs - my wife had three lab tests - each resulted in different blood types, positive and negative tests for hepatitus, high and low blood pressure, and a plethora of other bizarre results. When we returned to Japan (not the most famous for quality medical care) our Japanese doctor looked at the lab tests (my wife was pregnant), scoffed and tossed the reports in the trash can - didn't even bother to comment (actions speak louder than words)...so IF you move - practise caveat emptor with everything - frauds and cons in HK are also prolific. Beware of the ayi's most are good - but you can have some severe labor problems - we fired an ayi for taking our daughter out of the house early in the morning (7am) without permission and disappearing with her for half a day. When we finally tracked her down (by cell phone) she asked our other ayi to lie and tell us she took our daughter to see the doctor (b-sh*t) - the security guards told us she met some man in a mall with our daughter - obviously we fired her - but the courts told us we had to pay her severance pay - even though she was fired for cause - damned labor courts. We figured worst case scenerio - the ayi was setting us up for a child kidnapping.

On our second trip to HK, to setup our office, we stayed in a 5-star hotel and used the hotel baby-sitters - allegedly because they would be more dependable (stupid assumption) - we discovered the hotel supplied sitter was feeding our daughter cough medicine to make her sleep - so the sitter could lay on our bed (her feet were black from strolling around the hotel room balcony, ostensibly so she could smoke) and watch tv undisturbed. Basically she was drugging our infant daughter.

Kunmingers aren't as sophisticated - yes they lie, are greedy, selfish - but it's much easier to detect. The frauds and crimes you'll be exposed to in HK are much more sophisticated. Caveat emptor. Hopefully you'll never meet these kinds of people, but if you're running an investment firm - beware.

You'll meet many "complicated" people - even at the allegedly professional level. We took a well-known and respected executive in the accounting industry to meet our banker (Top 10 world bank - structured finance MD). We were contemplating using his firm as our inside accounting firm. He sprung an "investment opportunity" on our banker at the beginning of our meeting - without warning or permission and definitely not on the meeting agenda - surprised both our banker and me - which is a VERY bad thing, as you well know, bankers loathe surprises.

Fortunately we have a very close relationship with our banker - but had it been any other bank - that meeting could have severely damaged both our reputation and relationship. Obviously, we immediately terminate the company for fiduciary abuse (inside cause).

Of course, I've also seen my b-school students (exec level) experience major fraud from hiring their classmates (embezzlement) - but that would have been easy to detect had they paid even nominal attention to the business process - people here are utterly unsophisticated in their fraud schemes.

If you decide to pack up and leave, KM will definitely miss you - but the thinking here and in China in general at gov level is more dynastic (beyond a single lifetime - very very long-term) - although if your investments are in the USD 100 million to USD 1 billion+, level - Qiu He (Kunming Party Secretary) will DEFINITELY miss you. He's in a severe financial bind as evidenced by the prolific gov "investment" companies. Unlike your investment firm which looks for opportunities to fund, the gov investment companies are looking for money to fund their long list of difficult to finance opportunities.

Yuanyangren (297 posts) • 0

Kunming drivers can be very selfish...although it's no worse than other similar cities I guess. Shanghai is almost like Europe these days...Shenzhen looks quite orderly too. I think by 2020 some of this lack of courtesy, rude behavior etc. (both on the roads and in general) will slowly start to become a thing of the past, especially in the big cities. The level of change in China is phenomenol. Once you appreciate the fact that things can only get better in the future (which means things improve rather quickly), that should hopefully put a smile on your face.

Danmairen (510 posts) • 0

I'm thinking (hoping?) that this issue is related to people not growing up with a family car. When I was 12 I knew just about everything there was to know about how cars work, how they drive, traffic rules etc and my dad would berate me for not wearing the belt and scold me for sticking my head out the window. Most Chinese drivers in Kunming didn't have this upbringing so what to expect? Combine it with this feeling of superiority that comes with owning a car around here and you have the recipe for 85.000 (some sources say 110.000) traffic deaths a year.

rejected_goods (349 posts) • 0

Well, if you make a one to one comparison between hong kong, Taiwan, japan and singapore, you might have the idea. Time does not make a lot of differences.

Dazzer (2813 posts) • 0

Actually HK drivers are much better.
They stop for re-lights. They cut into traffic less. They do not stop on crosswalks. On crosswalks in HK, when the green man is on it is safe to cross. Drivers don't drive or park on the sidewalk, and the do slow down and stop for pedestrians who are already on crosswalks (the ones that don't have lights).

And yes, I also believe that driving standards will improve over time. Shanghai used to be like Kunming. Now it is very ordered.

HFCAMPO (3062 posts) • 0

When I am crossing the street on the designated crosswalk (Zebra Lines) and a car honks at me to get out of the way because he wants to make a right turn on Red, I immediately stop, point to my green light, and force the car to stop because I will not run or stop to get out of his way since I am in the Right to walk on the crosswalk - I have Not been run over yet (10+ years and counting).

Here are the regulations which clearly state that the driver must yield to pedestrians. Carry a copy of these on your person at all times.

中华人民共和国道路交通安全法实施条例
国务院第405号令 - (2004430)

第五十一条

机动车通过有交通信号灯控制的交叉路口,应当按照下列规定通行
  ()在划有导向车道的路口,按所需行进方向驶入导向车道
  ()准备进入环形路口的让已在路口内的机动车先行
  ()向左转弯时,靠路口中心点左侧转弯转弯时开启转向灯,夜间行驶开启近光灯
  ()遇放行信号时,依次通过
  ()遇停止信号时,依次停在停止线以外没有停止线的,停在路口以外
  ()向右转弯遇有同车道前车正在等候放行信号时,依次停车等候
  ()在没有方向指示信号灯的交叉路口,转弯的机动车让直行的车辆行人先行相对方向行驶的右转弯机动车让左转弯车辆先行

第六十七条

在单位院内居民居住区内,机动车应当低速行驶,避让行人有限速标志的,按照限速标志行驶

第六十八条

非机动车通过有交通信号灯控制的交叉路口,应当按照下列规定通行
  ()转弯的非机动车让直行的车辆行人优先通行
  ()遇有前方路口交通阻塞时,不得进入路口
  ()向左转弯时,靠路口中心点的右侧转弯
  ()遇有停止信号时,应当依次停在路口停止线以外没有停止线的,停在路口以外
  ()向右转弯遇有同方向前车正在等候放行信号时,在本车道内能够转弯的,可以通行不能转弯的,依次等候

第七十五条

行人横过机动车道,应当从行人过街设施通过没有行人过街设施的,应当从人行横道通过没有人行横道的,应当观察来往车辆的情况,确认安全后直行通过,不得在车辆临近时突然加速横穿或者中途倒退折返

yankee00 (1632 posts) • 0

I do exactly the same when crossing the street. That copy would be handy.

I wonder if there are regulations regarding the use of signal lights.

neddy (277 posts) • 0

All of this is cultural, from driving style, to how rules are followed. Carrying around rules is worthless because China is not so tied to rules as the West (some see this as a good thing, including me). In my opinion, we should not come to another country with a totally different culture, and then start criticizing this culture, based on Western, linear worldviews. In China, keeping traffic moving is more important than strict adhesion to a list of specific, arbitrary rules.

Every culture is different, and I personally find it offensive when people go to another culture, then start criticizing it and trying to change it, because in their culture, things are done differently.

Magnifico (1981 posts) • 0

It's not about criticizing something which is done differently just for the sake of whining or being arrogant.

Pedestrians are not treated fairly by this system. Sometimes, some things in life are WRONG and need to be changed.

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