Let me see if I have this correct...

The driving laws say that whoever hit the other person is at fault regardless if the person being hit did something illegally to cause the accident?

and

Regardless of the above, the Chinese court system has the latitude, based on relationships, to determine that the person who can afford best to pay is responsible for the accident, regardless of who disobeyed the laws and who was actually at fault?

It would be wonderful if someone who was a representative of the government could share their views on this.

but

Let's look outside the law and get back to the issue of public safety. Everyone seems to agree that Kunming is to a safe place to drive..

I go back to my original question: Do Kunming drivers care (or know) that they are not being safe? And if so, are they willing to do anything to make Kunming a safer place for everyone?

johnny m, get this straight. the traffic 'laws' are meaningless.
we are in china, land of copy machines. they've simply
downloaded the traffic regs from some gu'mint website in
middle america, printed 'em off, and said 'look what we
invented!'

they are not meant to be followed...c'mon...have you ever
known local peoples to follow any sort of directions? EVER?

i feel for the traffic cops, truly i do. someday they will be required
to enforce these laws, rather than sit by the roadside at their
little desks snoozing. when that day comes, they will have to
do something no other chinese must do.

i don't mean work, or work hard, or be efficient. that won't

happen. i mean they'll have to put their little heads together
and come up with something original....a brand new 'chengyu'
to describe "herding cats."

if you ever have the 'rare occasion' fo seeing how vehicles with the PLA military plates use the road, you might have to read the traffic code from front to back and then back to front again and again, and you will still be in a state of confusion. :-)

i have just seen one such vehicle travelling 1 km against the traffic on a busy road to get to the front of a queue of a car wash in beijing - the CAPITAL. beat that, kunming! so kunming is mild in comparison. :-)

While not apologizing for the seemingly unfair share of morons and imbeciles armed with WMA (weapons of mass destruction) in Kunming - it might help to remember that we really do live in a third world country with third world infrastructure and third world support staff. The problem in China is it has all the illusionary trappings of any major metropolis (cars, highways, airports, supermarkets, etc) but these are third world imperfect copies of more mature societies. The SOCIAL infrastructure has yet to catch up with the technology - which is a prosaic way of saying Kunming drivers are more like country bumpkins with no big city common sense and the generally pervasive culture of selfishness at all costs reigns for the current forseeable future. Try to learn (aside from issues which can cause serious injury or death) to make humor of the situation - reflect the culture. If the offender lies - then you should respect the local culture and do your best to assimilate - be a bigger and better liar! If they like to yell and scream and threaten - please exhibit respect and courtesy for the culture and respond and do your very best to respond in kind. I was taught at an early age to always be generous and courteous - so I thoroughly enjoy returning more than what I receive. It's my pleasure and delight.

Jonathon
As for traffic laws - the local traffic cops are NOT really authorized or bright enough to do anything aside from pretend to direct traffic. ANYTHING requiring brain power should be directed to a supervisor (who actually attended a professional police academy - akin to a 4 year university). You will find the supervisors short-tempered (because they have to deal with moronic staff all day long), well dressed, professional, and as long as you're polite and sane, reasonable. In the event of a dispute - they will almost always resort to suggesting EVERYONE involved come down to the police station and file formal reports (an all day affair - but should be quite interesting). The guilty party will usually back down under such a threat.

At that point - I highly recommend one follow the SUPERVISOR's recommendation as it "should" be just, fair, and reasonable". You can recognize the supervisor as he/she's usually the only one allowed to carry and wear a sidearm.

NEVER EVER deal with the local traffic guys - the general management rule of trying to resolve things at the lowest level of incompetence does NOT apply in this circumstance. Get the lowest level of incompetence (insist) their supervisor come down to resolve the issue as NOTHING will be resolved until a supervisor appears anyway.

If you're feeling particularly masochistic - you can enjoy the yelling and screaming at each other for a little while - just to give the traffic cop face and enjoy the current culture - maybe let off some steam for other things that bug you, THEN tell (not negotiable) him/her to have a supervisor come out - which they're loathe to do, hence their gruff attitude - dealing with stupid people who can't tell the difference between right and wrong, truth and lies, all day long is frustrating and stressful.

Finally, NEVER ever ever trust the local traffic cop to file a correct report - many things can change (influence peddling) between what is said and what is actually recorded. Most professional cops are career cops - it's rare to find a rank and file officer who'd jeopardize his/her career for a ¥100-10k bribe...although they do exist.

Ref PLA vehicles.

I don't think the traffic laws apply to them. I don't think the police have the power to stop them.

The don't hit anybody else is the unwritten law. However, when the traffic cop arrives he will look to see if anyone has crossed a white line illegally, or not given proper right of way. Proving someone busted a red light is harder.

PLA has artillery. Public security - pea shooters...

The PLA and anything else with a white plate are actually exempted from the traffic laws - and they know it!

@rejected_goods - they drive the same in Kunming as in Beijing!

On a further note, I've always been annoyed by the drivers who would change lanes BEFORE they had fully passed you. Last night a bus (tow bus?) did that right beside us! It's good that new cars have folding mirrors because ours folded, but there was still damage to the bumper.

lautou, your comment is spot on. This is exactly how it works here. I follow the same logic (or illogic) as the case may be.

The basic premise is that the Chinese ONLY function in the "I do what I want to do" mode. They take no consideration in how their actions effect people around them. Self centered to the extreme. It's their culture, and it will not change in your lifetime. Deal with it and act accordingly. I've observed this in every type of situation imaginable. It is their nature and no amount of bitching will ever change it. Either you can deal with it, or not. Nobody cares.
I find by being the same way in China is the only option you have here. Otherwise you will be taken advantage of and frustrated on a daily basis.

guys, one thing we have to take note that china has been progressing for just how many years the problem is the growth is way too fast.

their driving constitutes to their culture which havent grown or really havent adapt to a certain progress.

one thing traffic or how they drive still involves their mindsets during the time they all use bicycles. imagine when there is traffic what they do is find whatever space they can and stick their car into it not thinking the cause which further blocks the driveway of cars in the other direction or making it more impossible to cross.

we all know in the bicycle era, they just pedal their way through and with enormous riders in one area meeting the other end they just stuck it out and when everything stops, whoever has space whatever chance of mobility is there they work on it till bicycles starts moving again.

i dont want to divulge anymore on the ME ME ME first attitude but it also is part of it.

Kunming drivers are frustrating, selfish, etc - but y'all should visit Seoul to see some serious guerilla driving. Or ride the minibuses in HK. Everyone wants to pretend they're an F1 stunt driver...the minibuses in HK are more exciting because of the mountain roads.