Dudeson you do have a lot of time to write however I respect your perspective. When I think of Chinese culture I think of Confucianism,guanxi, rice, complex relationships, the family structure, the one child policy, government power etc and those old and young people doing tai chi in packs down on Green lake park. I also agree most of the young Chinese I know reject that and OK fair enough. Globalisation is producing convergence everywhere. How much longer do you think this culture will last? one - two generations?

I am not bitter or negative. Please stop painting people that way. I am happy I had a great day, I love my life and my family, I even like China. Just that I don't buy into all the BS, doesn't mean I am bitter. It is very easy, to have a happy fulfilling daily life, not being part of [any] culture.

You can live in the U.S. without eating three meals at McD, play baseball, cheerleading, drinking Bud Light, driving Ford Mustangs and shooting horseshoes, spitting chewing tobacco.

Personally,I have seen far too much violence, cruelty, nastiness in China. I know many of you have not, good for you, but I had my share. So, if someone is telling me that this culture is so, peaceful, wonderful, and fascinating, I tell people what I saw, and experienced.

I disagree with it, I have a lot of Chinese friends, I can use my 'Oh I am so Chinese, harmony-mode' when I have to, but it doesn't mean I like it, or that I respect this kind of culture or attitude. It's a tool to keep a**holes away from me.
Soooooo, believe it or not!

I guess most people cannot understand that, I can dislike Chinese culture and still have a happy, wonderful life.

For someone talking about accepting cultures and different angles, you [plural] seem to have a very hard time understanding just a different opinion.

At last, for a few years, two to be exact, when my Chinese was still bad and I didn't understand the culture, as much as I do now, -I liked it, I thought this is fantastic, but then I learned the language and I learned about the culture, [for what it's worth....?]
And I was shocked, what is really going on, in the richest, newly developed country. Treat [non foreign] strangers like animals and enjoying cruelty and lack of ethics so much. I just didn't like it...So I know I will get travel advice again, so yes the moment I can, I will be out of here and if I have to roller-skate out of here. And coming back, only if there is a very good reason [e.g gun to my head]...to come back. Otherwise, Pink Floyd said it;"Goodbye Cruel World"....I will watch the ship sink, [the 10th time for the same history-repeating crap it did last time.

Or, most probably a Nationalist Army Private trying to nuke Japan out of existence [again]. Starting a 3rd one....Looking at the waters in the South, not the craziest possibility.

I know it may sound negative, but dancing and saying oh the rocket batteries are for Chunjie fireworks and fighter jet landing strips are for, aliens, so they can rest at our concrete fortified beaches, to enjoy the firework. Or join the coast guard attacking fishermen in their own territorial waters....I could pretend all is fine, but that sound a bit naive and ignorant.

So if negative is the word for that, alright, I call it keeping my eyes open. lol

@ Stephen
If they want to survive. They must change, there is no way around it, or, as I said the ship will go down. Economically, there is India, Brazil, even little Asian states, like Vietnam, or Myanmar, ready to see China screwing it up.

Socially, the people who can trying to get a property abroad, so they can leave China. China getting older, actually killing the one child policy may almost be too late. Woman get kids later and later in their lives.

Education is a nightmare for 15 years, and the kids still don't learn anything, other than memorizing, a skill that is obsolete since ...dunno,...ever!

The culture is a mess, as we pointed out before all the lying, cheating, bribing, guanxi,...there is no natural competition or evolution.

Bubbles everywhere, housing markets, stock market, everything is just one huge Bullsh*t mountain, waiting to collapse.

Medical situation, a disaster....

Poverty everywhere, no welfare system...

Environment....holy crap!!!

Man,...you name it.

So the sooner it changes, the better. Not for good old me, because I want to have a more Western life in China,...-Nope! For the Chinese, my Chinese family.

Also to whatever smart way to change it, who cares, as long as they make it work.

Let's say it that way. If it doesn't change in the next 2 generation, China is screwed for good.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I see China in s much more positive light than some of you. That is fine: everyone is different.

Whilst many of the ancient customs and beliefs remain to an extent in Chinese culture, the events of the 20th century have had a huge part in shaping the way China is today. Even now we are feeling the vibrations of Maoist policies - the cultural revolution, which shaped the young people of that time - which are the biggest generation in China, and also the ones currently in power. My theory is that this 'bad generation', who are now grandparents, is largely responsible for the rudeness, pushing, shouting, bullying, and general callousness we see today. They brought up their children in their own mould, and now are influencing their grandchildren. The ancient respect for elders (usually not a bad thing) is making the problem worse. The bad news is: the ripples from the cultural revolution will continue 100 years after it ended. The good news is: ripples lose energy over time, so as the 'bad generation' die off one by one, their influence shrinks. It's going to get better, but it takes time to see change in culture - not months or years, but decades and centuries.

@ Haali Agree with your post "It's going to get better, but it takes time to see change in culture - not months or years, but decades and centuries."

Yes, there is a positive view, and a gloomy outlook. The above quote is pretty accurate.

My view is: the global economy is NOT GOING TO WAIT!

Dudeson, when you are talking about culture, what in hell is 'natural evolution'?
The culture of the Chinese has changed ENORMOUSLY over the past 100 years, over the past 65 years, over the past 20 years, and continues to change as we speak.
Is this thread still about 'lying in china'?

A culture can change artificially and it can evolve naturally.

Everyone walking around with a I-phone is not a change is culture but in consumerism.

E.g. A wealthy friend [acquaintance] of mine, having an expensive house, three cars [status], sending his kid to the best school, he's dressed in western style [best of the best] clothes, all gadgets you could dream of. But when I walked into his house, it was like going back a century. His kid didn't do his homework yet, so he slapped him. His trophy wife [sort of his fuyuan] annoyed him. she has a lover, he has a few girls around. He never fails to tell how much he dislikes foreigner and that I am the only one he can stand. Hitler and Mao are great, he doesn't like Jews, [I asked him, if he ever met one, he said he doesn't know] ...-black, and def. not Japanese.

He mostly wants to hang out with me to practice his English, he of course never asked me if I agree, nor does he ever offer anything in return.

He feels entitled when you go out to dinner with him, he is not ordering or booking, he is expecting to get.

I could go on,....but I think you get the picture.
And I think on your daily adventures through Kunming and China, you have met people like him, am I right?
Maybe not that extreme, but more a less, like him, right?

And please spare me of lying to yourself, that you have never, ever encountered a person like him, friend, stranger, cab driver, whatever. I am certain, that if you have been here more than 6 month, and you speak a little bit Chinese, you have met him.

Now place this man, in 1899 -1901 The boxer rebellion times. He wouldn't have an I-phone but instead probably a manchurian haido, being carried on his servants back....but he would fit right in.

So culture, deep down hasn't changed. Thanks to Confucianism, crappy governing, and the laziness and entitlement, plus the lack of admitting to mistakes, made it happen.
And that btw, if you have studied a little bit of the history of Chinese dynasties and empires, that it is the same thing that has killed Chinese thriving culture and economics....
It's fascinating and sad to see it coming again, over and over, again.

Nobody ever destroyed China or Chinese culture but themselves. I dunno if that has happened anywhere else.

That in essence China is still 100 years back. There are people wanting to change but China is a very big dragon and yeah, you are right it will change, over time, but is there? Is there enough time, to move very reluctantly and slow, fighting bureaucracy and social issues, environmental issues, global and domestic economical issues, and still claiming land and fighting its neighbors??

I would hurry up, a little, China is fragile, so a little bit of jiayou would prevent another collapse.

"A culture can change artificially and it can evolve naturally." - What does that mean? Was the Industrial Revolution a force of Nature?
As if consumerism were not a cultural phenomenon!
But we continue to be off the OP. This often happens on gokunming, often because many western foreigners here seem to convert every topic into 'China good' vs. 'China bad'. Tells more about the posters than about whatever the particular topic is.

Some good points in this discussion. Those of us who are guests in this country do need to adapt to the culture. We need to understand the directness/saving face issue. But that doesn't mean we will like the lying! Still not much point though in us merely criticizing it. But is it something that should change? For example is lying of detriment to business & the economy, especially with more & more global commerce occurring? If international companies discover their Chinese partners have been less than truthful about their products etc, would there be consequences that contribute to bursting China's bubble? ("Killing and destroying China" like Dudeson just said.) So wouldn't things be more stable in the long run without lying?
Interesting about the moral influences that Michael2015 said "Sometimes is just false or faux humility, as demanded by Confucian, Dao, and Buddhist precepts." But Dudeson feels that those philsophies do in fact teach truth and honesty – can anyone clarify that apparent contradiction?
Dudeson went on to say about those types of virtues that now China has 'none'. Certainly a lot of what they traditionally had were deliberately swept away. Michael2015's comment though seems to say that there is still some influence of traditional philosophies, but that those do not necessarily always teach against lying?
So is lying a moral problem, in need of a moral solution?
On these forums people like to say what 'should' happen, so hypothetically being Emperor for a day what could be done?