"I know I have to love it and have face-intercourse with it,"
yeh! of course i love you baby. i will respect you in the morning ;_0

Dudeson, you don't have to love it. If you dump all indirection into the category 'lying' then you'll have a very simple-minded black/white view of people, and you won't learn anything about them. Nor will you teach them anything. And I'm damned if I can see how you might be able to cooperate with anybody.
I talk to random people, shop owners etc. daily and get along with them fine.
I'm not big on lying and frankly usually prefer a bit more directness than what one finds in interactions here, but the main problem you seem to have is yours, not that of 1 & 1/2 billion people. Before you can learn anything, it's usually necessary to understand that there's something that you don't know. And if you can't adjust better, you'll be miserable.

@LongDragon
Assuming this is more focused on business relationships than personal, although the two are remarkably similar, the quote is an interesting, but rather limited socio-economic stereotype on an extraordinarily diverse and complicated society.

In my personal opinion based on limited personal experience and hence limited sampling sizes across limited locales, lying is used by the uneducated and uncultured and is akin to upselling - an attempt to enhance something inferior, for personal benefit or gain, often at the expense of the unsuspecting, gullible, or trusting victim.

On the other side of the spectrum - the wealthier, more powerful, affluent, etc. lying is used to deceive, in an attempt to hide or downplay one's true strength, power, or resources. Sometimes is just false or faux humility, as demanded by Confucian, Dao, and Buddhist precepts. It is a form of self defense and self-preservation. Lying is also a form of bluff.

In a populous nation of upsellers trying to access resources - lying, deception, or upselling becomes the norm when interacting with potential resources, hence the logic for guanxi based professional relationships. Guanxi, in my personal experience, is either abused for high risk win-lose propositions, or is effectively used for potential win-win relationships, based on trust.

It's just an opinion, based on very limited personal experiences and observations and I'm not making a judgmental (hopefully not) statement - it's the apparent pervasive and persistent status quo and is something that needs to be managed, if one wishes to do business in China - or any developing nation with similarly evolving and developing characteristics.

In the west, I've personally witnessed major western multinational corporations exhibit design fraud, accounting fraud, contract fraud, using their brands to peddle their ilk.

So fraud and lying is merely a perception and a reality that must be identified (quickly), managed, and controlled to minimize the risk of victimization (for all stakeholders).

It's not the lie which we must manage, it's the intent, as the intent is the root cause. And intent is difficult to root out.

The concept of "lying" is very fluid, and varies from culture to culture. For example, "Honey, does this dress make me look fat?" How many of us have not "lied" about this to avoid an all-night argument? Or, someone is kind enough to spend all day cooking you a special meal, and gives it to you in generosity, hospitality, and love, but you are not crazy about it. Do you badmouth the food, or just say it is good to make the host feel good?

In China, communication is about people, not about some rigid set of rules. Chinese human interaction is fluid, and has as its goal the good of everyone.

To really thrive in China, the Westerner must change the way he thinks and acts. This is a part of getting along anywhere, of course. It is just a different worldview and mindset.

You could insist that all of China bow to your own rigid, black and white definition of everything, based on the premise that "the way we do it back home is the only right way!", but it will do little more than make you appear to be that crazy foreigner who people treat like a child.

I found when I was teaching that students were horrible liars. I mean just plain bad. I gathered that so long as they told you something you were to let it drop. If you persisted with questions or said you did not believe them then suddenly you are are the bad guy. I am sure other teachers, foreign and Chinese, have encountered this conundrum: A student who has never been to class, or came the first day then stopped, shows up for the final exam. When you point out that they missed the entire semester they shoot back with "oh no, I was here. I was in the back. I thought you saw me." My feelings about the face thing is really mixed too. It seems to mean that person A can do whatever they want, like spitting on the classroom floor, and if person B says something then person A has lost face. person A should be allowed to do as they wish and this includes lying and cheating, and person B needs to be polite and let it happen. Lying is lying. People here also lie to you with a big smile on their face, often reassuring you can trust them. I really hate that the most. Then if you call them on it later you are the one lacking in civility.

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On a bit of tangent off Zhudan's post, yesterday a woman on a 72v ebike who was carrying another ebike hit me & my wife's ebike as she overtook us. There was plenty of space, we were well over on the right hand side of the bike lane and riding in a straight line. The contact broke off the front left wing of our bike. Me and my wife immediately shouted "Ga me! Ni zeme kai che?" but got no apology, not even a glance back, no reaction at all. This made us furious and we were tempted to push them off their bike and laugh at them, but we of course didn't. It wasn't exactly lying as they said nothing, but something akin to that as they refused to recognise that there had been a crash or that it was their fault. People that rude should get in the sea!

@Haali What aholes!

Michael 2015 and Long dragon both have interesting perspectives. The saving of face is an important characteristic of Chinese culture that you can sit back and complain about, which in a western environment is probably the right thing to do if you want to sleep at night. However in this wonderful culture, if you want to prosper, sadly you must play by the same rules. In certain context people lie to save face and its obvious however their is no way to win unless you use the same rules. ie. lie when you are wrong - its a strange beast. Guanxi is another interesting concept that at the Government level is usually the powerful versus the weak however in business if you are willing to take your time and play the game, and its complex, you can develop real friends and can stick to your ethics. By that I mean develop some great friendships of people that will stick by you when you need them. However trust is a characteristic you need to constantly question and even when you feel you know someone well be careful.
Forget about the west, this is China and the rules are very different but in every game you can win if you play it smart. Unfortunately you may have to forsake your integrity but that is part of the game as well.

@Dudeson

I was saying I have experienced lying here, however I don't go around counting lies so I can only sum up no more or no less than anywhere else.

The people you must encounter on a daily I encounter once every so often.

@Haali

What you refer to is stupidity and rudeness which is another kettle of fish entirely and one that I encounter on a much more regular basis than lies.

@stephen 58

You're obsessed with Guanxi