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Forums > Living in Kunming > Rediculous health insurance comment

Tony
I apologize for sending you on what seems to be a considerably time-consuming but enlightening wild goose chase and especially for toning down the profanity.

Upon further but nominal research, spurred on by your rebuttal, I must admit again, I don't really know what China's WW2 debts are at all and whether they have been paid off. It seems extremely convoluted (US Lend-Lease program) and difficult to track down reliably - published books tending to be significantly more reliable than internet searches.

The core issue was China was repaying war debts to the former USSR in part, using grain, which exacerbated an already bad domestic situation.

As mentioned and apparently verified, I was surprised that the UK repaid it's sizable war debt to the USA in full, to include interest payments. Not surprised that the UK repaid it - but surprised that the USA did NOT forgive the war debt, as it had with Japan and Germany - which were actually war reparations - a debt with a different name.

Geezer - similar regrets - it was NOT my intention to focus on war debts or reparations due diligence activities - but on the issue of sustainable healthcare for the masses.

The motivating philosophy was, "what kind of legacy/world would I like to leave behind for my children" and in a more practical and pragmatic perspective - if they worked for a company I helped found - what kind of sustainable health benefits would I want them to "inherit". The issue goes beyond healthcare - to the end of career retirement benefits.

Retirement benefits are at risk both here in China, Japan, and the USA (dunno about ANZ or UK), because of how the plans were structured (perpetual growth pyramid scheme).

So, in addition to robust sustainable healthcare, a robust sustainable retirement or retirement savings plan would also be in the mix.

This would perhaps go a long way to address any employee's biggest fear - long-term security, assuming the company had the ability to also be a long-term sustainable company, spanning the 30+ year employment cycle.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > Informal Health Insurance Poll - Expats & Locals

Geezer
Thanks for the feedback and personal experience with your students. 30m years of China observation is quite impressive.

I don't expect the solution to be simple - but even complicated problems must eventually be broken down into constituent components, to be eventually resolved. The key was to try to identify a potentially feasible solution, then break it into executable components.

As I understand the way China appears to work or appears to work in Kunming - government organizations lead first, followed by industry. In cases where industry moves first, with allowances for talented firms, such as firms like alibaba et al.

Internal operating models I'm considering are employee owned firms, similar to US employee owned firms, using benefits such as healthcare, childcare, career growth, etc to further bind employees and reduce turnover, and hopefully improve or implement employer-employee loyalty as a culture and ethic.

I understand the negatives of abusive family treatment and those abuses will of course be risks to companies with that kind of philosophy, so built-in checks and balances to prevent, punish, and or discourage that kind of behavior would need to be engineered into the company's DNA.

I detest doing this kind of prep work - but if I don't do it, it won't get done. The alternative is be lazy and drop in a status quo system, which is looking mighty desirable right now.

The focus is domestic employees.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > Informal Health Insurance Poll - Expats & Locals

If you were working for a local or multinational company in Yunnan, what kind of government and or corporate primary health care benefits would you expect gratis and which ones would you consider paying for.

As an example - I would think catastrophic health care for all would be a national social responsibility, perhaps basic dental care with co-pays, basic vision care with co-pays, and audio/hearing care, with co-pays.

Catastrophic care would also cover families and congenital birth defects, wisdom teeth extractions (for impacted or at risk), government mandated vaccinations (with copays), etc etc etc.

Or alternatively - should the company cover everything and treat employees more like family than mercenaries and should businesses migrate towards employee-owned business models?

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Forums > Living in Kunming > Rediculous health insurance comment

The link was posted at tony's request - other verbiage and profanities aside. I understand Tony was upset at the original article (?), so will assume I was just collateral damage from that initial inspiration to post, or not.

It's better I start a separate thread - as what I was looking for isn't really relevant to Tony's title.

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@Geogramatt
Assuming your question was serious - a simple google or bing search will yield a plethora of results. The UN (un.edu) has an excellent article on China and India's definition of "poverty lines", but the information is probably outdated as China's economy zooms ahead. China's National Development & Reform Commission - which manages the national five year plan strategies contains the general high level requirements for sustainable development of this country (en.ndrc.gov.cn).

China's five years plans used to be mocked and ridiculed by the western media - but if you've ever performed or witnessed requirements engineering and the processes and artifacts - you cannot but conclude these artifacts are world class professional documents. The Five Year Plans are essentially high level requirements, which indicate the government's architecture for this country - which are then supposed to be devolved by project owners (government officials) into detailed planning documents for execution, monitoring & controlling, and phase out - following generally accepted globally recognized professional standards for professional project management.

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Many of China's sustainable poverty elimination plans included seeding of livestock (chickens, pigs, etc) to enable animal husbandry, to increase annual income of the farmers. Last reports were China had sustainable eliminated poverty for over 800 million citizens, with roughly 70-80 million to go. Xi JinPing's goal is 100% elimination by 2020.

Regardless of definition - the consistent attention to poverty elimination is laudable and China's accomplishment in this area is unparalleled in recorded history - resulting in formal recognition by the UN for its successful efforts in this area.

Occasionally, there are questionable ploys to eliminate poverty - such as merely moving people from poverty stricken areas to a different place, to accomplish the numbers - however moving to more fertile or arable ground with better access to transportation, water, healthcare and education facilities can also be considered an improvement in quality of life.

China's current Five Year Plans call for the industrialization of the rural areas, in a responsible sustainable manner. This next move will involve a major cultural shift in the rural areas as farmers begin to aggregate land and resources, pay more attention to water and soil pollution, and reduce the uses of chemical fertilizers and insecticides.

Animal husbandry is another area of potential aggregation - with tremendous opportunities for the high technologies from developed nations such as the EU (+UK), Japan, and USA.

All of these technologies offer the opportunity of significantly reduced water usage and significantly reduced water pollution. It's actually a rather exciting period of history to watch as this massive country continues its transition into a developed nation and global leader and expands into the belt and road with infrastructure development for its neighbors.

If the China model can be applied along the belt and road - the entire Middle East and Africa will finally have the opportunity to similarly eliminate poverty, develop sustainable economies, and perhaps even make serious dents on global terrorism.

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Took the family here to stroll around and there's a LOT of walking. Many of the stores appear closed, but the bar street nestled inside seems quite well populated.

We chose the Japanese restaurant near the entrance (there are many entrances). The food and service was quite acceptable - from the fruit salad, tuna salad, curry pork cutlet, and the ubiquitous California Sush Rolls (you can buy the small size or the large size).

It rained a little while we were there, which helped drench the heat and humidity. When the sun came out - it was HOT.

If you're lucky, you'll occasionally see people (usually women) wearing minority clothing being photographed by professional photographers. There's also a small photographer's store where you can rent various ethnic clothing and have professional pictures taken (maybe the two are related...now that I think about it).

There's also the ubiquitous game centers (shooting galleries etc) for the kids and unaccompanied teenagers.

It seems the most popular venues were the prolific food courts - but that's probably related to it being lunchtime when we visited. The place is clean and plenty of antiqued door fronts (the wood panels) for those photo shoots.

Capping off the visit, one must of course take pictures on the bridges crossing the lily ponds and the landmark temple spire. We didn't make it to the surrounding temples. Maybe next time.

Transportation is everywhere - but make sure you have your mobile phone ride share app working, just in case you hit rush hour.

Again - for now - it seems many vendors were closed - but I'm positive that'll change again as the economy begins to rebound.

Excellent way to spend a half day as opposed to the kids faces glued to their mobile devices...fresh air, good food, plenty of people watching, and walking...walking...walking...

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Took the family here a few days ago. Wonderful place to go walking with lots of snack & drink kiosks (along with chairs and tables) to rest frequently. This zoo is similar to most other large open air zoos with reasonably spacious enclosures. This place is HUGE so be prepared for a LOT of walking. Consider wearing sensible hiking or walking shoes. Your feet will be grateful.

Entrance fees when we went still cny100 for adults and kids cny70. Feeding the animals at the managed venues - cny30 per site...per child. Monkeys can be fed by tossing carrots and sliced apples into their enclosure - which is good. Monkeys famous for flash mobbing. Can be terrifying for kids (and adults). Even in the enclosures, you can clearly see they're territorial and aggressive. Bullying is displayed frequently enough for teaching moments for the kids (cuz there are monkeys in all schools everywhere in the world).

MOST people bring their own food and drink, as the kiosks are quite expensive. Example a cny5 drink outside is cny10 in the zoo, so expect most everything to be twice as expensive. I had a bbq chick drumstick (leg?) for cny25...ouch.

Bring carrots. LOTS of carrots. The zoo has several managed (paid) and unmanaged petting areas for most semi-domesticated animals, such as the Alpacas (seriously cute), deer, giraffes (ok...you can feed the giraffes on an elevated platform, but probably difficult to "pat" the animals. It's kind of spectacular to actually see giraffes face to face - these animals are simply vertigo inducing huge and tall.

The seal show was nice - typical of seal shows everywhere. Seals are kind of like the dogs of the sea. Friendly and ravenous appetites so easily trainable.

Lots of cheap touristy souvenirs to buy the for the kiddies (and relatives kids).

HIGHLY recommend taking the bus tour - they basically zoom around picking up and dropping off customers (they check your e-ticket at every pickup site) at entrances and exits to walking enclosures. They'll drop you off at roughly 15 minute walking sites. NO need to rush and you can grab ANY bus upon emerging from the walking enclosure sites.

Of course, the ultimate attraction always the lion and tiger exhibits at the top of the mountain.

Bring a fan. It gets hot. We were fortunate as the sky was mostly overcast so the temperature was generally cool, but heated up almost instantly whenever the sun peeked out of the clouds.

Bring LOTS of water. Most veteran tourists have their own liter bottles of water. Bring your own umbrella. When the sun comes out - it's HOT. Bring a wide brimmed hat if you're into comfort over vanity. SUNTAN LOTION never goes astray.

Aside from that - typical Chinese group site with everyone rushing the buses and ticket counters. Not so much rushing for the food venues, so seems the elevated prices keep that comfortably in check.

All in all - GREAT place to take the kiddies (or a date if you both know you're into each other - cuz you'll be spending an entire day together). The Outdoor Zoo seems exceptionally well designed with plenty of both managed and unmanaged (eg walking deer along the roadside and the stroll through the peacock "garden").

Easy cab or shared ride out and back. Taxis aplenty when you're ready to leave (just walk past the parking lot gate - they'll be waiting for you). You should consider dining out or delivery at the end of the day.

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Took the kiddies here again.

1. It's FREE.
2. NO knives, lighters, sharp objects, etc. There's a place in front to check bags, luggage (if you're traveling), etc - but the exit is in the rear of the monolithic building, so it's a bit of a hike to walk back around to the checked storage area (it's also FREE).

THIRD FLOOR
We went straight to the third floor - History and artifacts of Yunnan (mostly). Rich history - lots of original sculptures etc removed from grottoes and displayed in the museum. Lots of English language titles and occasionally some explanatory text in English.

SECOND FLOOR
This is the evolution floor with lots of petrified artifacts - sea life mostly, lots of recreations of animals and environments from pre-man times.

There are coffee shops and dining areas on the first floor and drink vending machines on the second and third floors. The place is HUGE so a great place to take the kiddies and walk around until they're tired. They'll probably enjoy the dinosaur exhibit on the second floor the most. Wait a few minutes and the dinosaurs will roar and move their heads and maybe pretend to chew (open and close their maws).

PLENTY of parking and unfortunately NOT close to any subway station, so you'll have to grab a cab or rideshare but seems taxis and transportation are aplenty in the city and surrounding environs.

And...it's FREE for now. Museum closes at 5pm so make sure you leave by 430-445 so you can hike back to the storage area if you checked anything in as they also close at 5pm.

Enjoy!

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This is a great place to walk around and generally kill time while shopping for nothing in particular. Nearby is the Paulaner Brewhouse for super fantastic food, coffee and drinks, outdoor patio dining or just hanging and people watching.

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DATE
2022.01.17

SUMMARY
Just popped in for the annual to biennial visa health check. Cost was CNY 487 - don't forget to bring at least THREE (3) visa pictures and your mask.

As usual, there are TWO health codes to display - the usual kunming/yunnan green QR code and the green "Arrow" code.

ARRIVAL
I went late in the morning, but still managed to shuttle through all the departments and get out before lunch.

I used didi to get there and the map now correctly shows the rear parking entrance as the destination drop-off point. You can also take the subway to a nearby station, and walk walk walk walk walk - it's actually not too far but it will elevate your blood pressure and pulse (BPP) - so make sure to rest 5-10 minutes to allow your BPP to drop back to resting state.

Upon arrival at the main gate, you'll do the usual check-in procedure - mask, sign-in, green QR code, temperature check.

Once inside - Present your passport, green QR code, and green (hopefully) arrow code. Scan the QR codes on your left as you walk in if you don't have these prepared already. The staff will then pass you an application form. Walk over to the wall of stand-up desks to your right, fill out the forms, then stroll over to the clerks to present the form. They'll print out a sheet of bar coded labels for your tests, take your digital picture, attach everything together with a paper clip, then direct you to the cashier to pay CNY 487 (WeChat, alipay, bank card, etc) Don't know if they still accept cash.

HEALTH CHECKS
Hike up the the 2nd or 3rd floor to start the battery of tests:

3rd floor

Chest X-ray

Physical (height, weight, BMI/body mass index)

2nd floor

ECG

Sonogram

Urine test

Blood Test

Eye test (color blindness and eye chart)

Dental

Heart (pulse, blood pressure)

I may have missed a few like the OB GYN...

It seems they also have a COVID/NAT (nucleic acid test) center in a shipping container lab outside the health center - but I didn't bother jogging over to check if it was still operational. In retrospect, should've checked, as the hospitals are jam packed with Chinese New Year travelers.

RESULTS PICKUP
The test results are ready the afternoon of the second day. The facility seems sparsely busy even though they service both foreigners and nationals. There were rarely lines or noticeable waits beyond a few minutes, with at most 1-2 people ahead of you.

Staff are always nice, polite, professional and tirelessly patient for those of us with limited to no communications abilities.