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Forums > Living in Kunming > Health Certificate

@jado...
Entire process (new process, of which Yunnan is one of the pilot provinces), took 6 months. Apparently, I was one of the first guinea pigs for Yunnan, so the process had quite a few kinks, red herrings, and frustrations for all. Hopefully, your experience will definitely be infinitely less frustrating.

Once I returned to Kunming, converting the temporary work visa to the annual visa - infinitely less troublesome.

On a positive note - I renewed my driver's license, so now I can apply for a local license here (aka written driving test). Astoundingly, my driver's license in the USA had expired 11 years ago, but as I was still in their system - I only needed to take the written exam again (piece of cake). Sometimes, computers are actually beneficial.

I also noticed that California's bureaucracy works INFINITELY better than the US State Department, which I can only disparage disdainfully.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > Health Certificate

@doraemon-lei
Yes - that's how I did the health check in the USA. My office mailed the official Chinese/English form, which I had the US medical rep fill out after I completed the physical.

There was some discussion about whether I'd have to have the completed forms notarized and then authenticated (city, state, federal) - but we fortunately got that request squashed.

There was also some discussion about having this crud translated, which would then require notarization and then the profane and obscene authentication process, but got that quashed also.

The next thing I was asked to do - go to a Chinese Embassy/Consulate and have the health check done yet AGAIN by a health clinic certified and designated by the Embassy/Consulate, AFTER I'd completed the local health check in the USA.

The Chinese Consulate asked me who was directing me to do these things, as they have NO REQUIREMENT for a health check and they have NO DESIGNATED health check clinic, so that inane request quashed also. They also noted - they'd been receiving a LOT of these non-sensical requests. Please note - they were prepared to honor the request by telling me to have everything notarized and authenticated - if it was absolutely mandated by some government agency in China...what a nightmare.

By this time - it's clear someone is making things up, utterly unrelated to work visa requirements. It was apparently originating from the new provincial office staff involved in this newly implemented process.

To reiterate - Yunnan is part of a nationwide pilot to revamp the foreign expert and work visa system (and probably also the student visa and every other type of visa). It seems they're trying to go digital and move away from paper records (yay!). The work invitation letter and the temporary work visa are barcoded and MUST be additionally entered into the MOFA (ministry of foreign affairs) computer system AND both your invitation letter AND your temporary work visa approval certificate (?) must be specifically targeted (addressed) to the consulate or embassy handling your "stuff". My "stuff" was initially addressed to the Chinese Embassy - so in a typical catch-22 - the consulate could not verify any of my barcoded documents as they weren't in their system AND the Embassy refused to handle my documents as I was within the consulate's designated "care" zone...so we had to do all the letters over again.

Following up on this - the un-named to protect the guilty provincial office neglected to also enter my letters into the MOFA system...so even though I had the hardcopy originals - the consulate still refused to issue the work visa, because there was no record of me in the MOFA system.

FYI - for those in the USA and especially california - I used a combination of free county clinics (for the STD checks) and low-income health clinics for the health check certificate stuff. Only had to pay for lab tests (not inexpensive) and nominal fees for physicians (or their lower paid counterparts). I'm not even sure I actually saw a board certified MD in this process.

I'm still waiting to hear if I need the supplemental health check, once we transition the temporary work visa to the semi-permanent annual work visa. I've had to have health checks from the designated clinic sporadically, even though I'd never left China during those periods.

I'll bump this thread if the additional local official health is required of me.

As always, with most things in china, your mileage may vary (YMMV).

This new system process is extremely bug ridden - it's quite obvious nobody did a preliminary process walk-thru before they went live with the pilot. The pilot was the dry run and it was an utter mess for me.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > Foreign Teachers & Tax Treaties

Double taxation, as I understood it - was being taxed in both the country you work and your home country.

Technically, as long as one is paying taxes in a foreign country, with records to prove - one needn't pay tax in your home country, subject to the tax laws of your home country.

For US citizens working abroad (federal employees exempted), we're allowed over USD 90k in non-taxable salary (but you still have to file annual federal tax returns). Expat tax benefits are of course subject to IRS qualifications (330 days living overseas, etc ad infinitum).

I do NOT believe this means you can work in China and NOT pay tax in China. It merely potentially relieves your tax burden at home (paying taxes on taxes), with the appropriate official tax documentation.

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First - excellent and informative article. Although I absolutely must concur with some of the views of the expert - the facts are always not so obvious, when one chooses to micro-focus on subsystems as opposed to expanding one's view to a larger system. This is a popular management trend called decision-based data as opposed to data-driven decisions. So agreement, disagreement, or no opinion - depends on one's perspective.

Most westerners, especially those with hidden or obvious political agendas, look at China as they look at the west - a free market based economy.

China is a planned economy and certain infrastructures are built looking forwards decades.

China's energy consumption trajectory is not considered by the author, so let's take a look at that subjectively or qualitatively, since I'm too lazy to do the research numbers.

ENERGY CONSUMPTION IN KUNMING
Our hot water heaters used to be gas powered - but we had to replace the "damned" thing every two years because of the buildup of ash (aka toxins - seriously...green flecks in the ash - what is that? Chromium?) from the dirty gas. We switched to a combination of solar and electric (which do NOT work in tandem).

The prolific construction of new high-rises do not permit the effective use of solar in high density residential communities (e.g. most real estate development mega projects in Kunming are around the 2k residence level. So on demand electric systems make more sense.

COOKING
We haven't switched to electric because the power grid where we live simply won't handle the load (much less our ancient wiring). New high rise developments come with the option of gas or electric - with most choosing electric. It's fast, clean, and doesn't expose the stove components to cooking spillage. We've replaced our gas stove twice in the last 8 years - but to be fair - the last replacement was required because we switched to a new "cleaner" gas.

E-BIKES
Prolific.

MASS TRANSIT
The subway - electric powered. Buses moving towards electric power. And automobiles - e-powered vehicles are an emerging phenomenon with incredibly central government support and subsidies. Occasionally, you'll spot that rare BYD electric powered taxi (the SUV). China is migrating as much as its domestic infrastructure off fossil fuel dependence as possible.

So just from our own personal experiences and observations - consumer-based consumption of electric services is increasing at a steady pace.

ENVIRONMENTAL
There is no argument about the destruction of surrounding habitats and the migration of valley dwellers. This is a management issue for the government as they strive for poverty elimination. A large part of China's poverty elimination program is focused on attracting rural workers to cities, with jobs, education, and the ever upwardly mobile opportunities that education can provide - hence that insane construction pace. Kunming is planned to grow to a size of 10 million (but don't know the date on that plan).

Last time I checked - the city is at about 6.6 million, so we have another 3.4 million to go - so those 2000 unit mega developments (assume a family size of 4) housing up to 4 people, not including grandparents, in-laws, and others - 8k per development. That means ROUGHLY we'll need another 425 real estate development projects to house those 3.4 million additional residents.

That's another 850k families (3.4 mil/4,assuming a family unit of 4) consuming energy, services, infrastructure, e-bikes, cooking, water, toilet flushing, etc etc etc.

And that's JUST Kunming - there are 15 other prefectural level cities with supposed urban sprawl magnet program requirements as part of the nation's poverty elimination strategies.

So the author points out the displacement of a few thousand to a few hundred thousand people. Cast that against 3.4 million and things perhaps aren't quite as obvious - and again, that is ONLY based on Kunming plans. As we all noticed with the formerly famous and internationally maligned Chenggong ghost city (not so ghostly anymore), planned economies can be sustainably successful. And we didn't even discuss all the government (schools, 2 fly toilets, etc) and commercial infrastructures (restaurants, businesses, etc ad infinitum) that spawn from those residential communities. And we haven't even begun to address the energy sucking behavior of the internet and all its derivative industries - data centers, cloud computing centers, distributed corporate IT migration strategies.

Easy to criticize a microscopic spot than to manage the mega complicated system that is China.

However - that said - the author's points ARE valid and we do need alternate perspectives, so we understand the cost/benefit trade-off more responsibly.

And...I'll just get off that soapbox now...

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China is ramping up the use of e-vehhicles - which should take some of the capacity. I'm also wondering about whether we're exporting power to SE asia, which would seem to be an excellent market, and to the middle east where they DEFINITELY need power along the OBOR (one belt, one road).

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I'm thinking his romanizations can be forgiven, given that putonghua was not standard and he's probably hearing a variety of dialectic Kunming hua and the incredibly diverse minority languages and dialects, when the locals or guides provide descriptions of various names and places, not to mention the various linguistic eccentricities of the various european missionaries.

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Fuxian Lake is a major vigorously and rigorously protected potable (drinkable) water source. It's host to a plethora of fresh water food, BBQs and the Hilton Hotel overlooks the lake. Behind the Hilton is a rather large collection of villas (HK style), many with basements, garage (not necessarily connected to your home though), and lap pools, if the lake is too far to walk (it's about 1-2km away).

The lake surroundings are a future development site for Yuxi City, so should be interesting to see how the city develops, while complying with the national protection of water resources.

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Took the family here to stroll around and there's a LOT of walking. Many of the stores appear closed, but the bar street nestled inside seems quite well populated.

We chose the Japanese restaurant near the entrance (there are many entrances). The food and service was quite acceptable - from the fruit salad, tuna salad, curry pork cutlet, and the ubiquitous California Sush Rolls (you can buy the small size or the large size).

It rained a little while we were there, which helped drench the heat and humidity. When the sun came out - it was HOT.

If you're lucky, you'll occasionally see people (usually women) wearing minority clothing being photographed by professional photographers. There's also a small photographer's store where you can rent various ethnic clothing and have professional pictures taken (maybe the two are related...now that I think about it).

There's also the ubiquitous game centers (shooting galleries etc) for the kids and unaccompanied teenagers.

It seems the most popular venues were the prolific food courts - but that's probably related to it being lunchtime when we visited. The place is clean and plenty of antiqued door fronts (the wood panels) for those photo shoots.

Capping off the visit, one must of course take pictures on the bridges crossing the lily ponds and the landmark temple spire. We didn't make it to the surrounding temples. Maybe next time.

Transportation is everywhere - but make sure you have your mobile phone ride share app working, just in case you hit rush hour.

Again - for now - it seems many vendors were closed - but I'm positive that'll change again as the economy begins to rebound.

Excellent way to spend a half day as opposed to the kids faces glued to their mobile devices...fresh air, good food, plenty of people watching, and walking...walking...walking...

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Took the family here a few days ago. Wonderful place to go walking with lots of snack & drink kiosks (along with chairs and tables) to rest frequently. This zoo is similar to most other large open air zoos with reasonably spacious enclosures. This place is HUGE so be prepared for a LOT of walking. Consider wearing sensible hiking or walking shoes. Your feet will be grateful.

Entrance fees when we went still cny100 for adults and kids cny70. Feeding the animals at the managed venues - cny30 per site...per child. Monkeys can be fed by tossing carrots and sliced apples into their enclosure - which is good. Monkeys famous for flash mobbing. Can be terrifying for kids (and adults). Even in the enclosures, you can clearly see they're territorial and aggressive. Bullying is displayed frequently enough for teaching moments for the kids (cuz there are monkeys in all schools everywhere in the world).

MOST people bring their own food and drink, as the kiosks are quite expensive. Example a cny5 drink outside is cny10 in the zoo, so expect most everything to be twice as expensive. I had a bbq chick drumstick (leg?) for cny25...ouch.

Bring carrots. LOTS of carrots. The zoo has several managed (paid) and unmanaged petting areas for most semi-domesticated animals, such as the Alpacas (seriously cute), deer, giraffes (ok...you can feed the giraffes on an elevated platform, but probably difficult to "pat" the animals. It's kind of spectacular to actually see giraffes face to face - these animals are simply vertigo inducing huge and tall.

The seal show was nice - typical of seal shows everywhere. Seals are kind of like the dogs of the sea. Friendly and ravenous appetites so easily trainable.

Lots of cheap touristy souvenirs to buy the for the kiddies (and relatives kids).

HIGHLY recommend taking the bus tour - they basically zoom around picking up and dropping off customers (they check your e-ticket at every pickup site) at entrances and exits to walking enclosures. They'll drop you off at roughly 15 minute walking sites. NO need to rush and you can grab ANY bus upon emerging from the walking enclosure sites.

Of course, the ultimate attraction always the lion and tiger exhibits at the top of the mountain.

Bring a fan. It gets hot. We were fortunate as the sky was mostly overcast so the temperature was generally cool, but heated up almost instantly whenever the sun peeked out of the clouds.

Bring LOTS of water. Most veteran tourists have their own liter bottles of water. Bring your own umbrella. When the sun comes out - it's HOT. Bring a wide brimmed hat if you're into comfort over vanity. SUNTAN LOTION never goes astray.

Aside from that - typical Chinese group site with everyone rushing the buses and ticket counters. Not so much rushing for the food venues, so seems the elevated prices keep that comfortably in check.

All in all - GREAT place to take the kiddies (or a date if you both know you're into each other - cuz you'll be spending an entire day together). The Outdoor Zoo seems exceptionally well designed with plenty of both managed and unmanaged (eg walking deer along the roadside and the stroll through the peacock "garden").

Easy cab or shared ride out and back. Taxis aplenty when you're ready to leave (just walk past the parking lot gate - they'll be waiting for you). You should consider dining out or delivery at the end of the day.

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Took the kiddies here again.

1. It's FREE.
2. NO knives, lighters, sharp objects, etc. There's a place in front to check bags, luggage (if you're traveling), etc - but the exit is in the rear of the monolithic building, so it's a bit of a hike to walk back around to the checked storage area (it's also FREE).

THIRD FLOOR
We went straight to the third floor - History and artifacts of Yunnan (mostly). Rich history - lots of original sculptures etc removed from grottoes and displayed in the museum. Lots of English language titles and occasionally some explanatory text in English.

SECOND FLOOR
This is the evolution floor with lots of petrified artifacts - sea life mostly, lots of recreations of animals and environments from pre-man times.

There are coffee shops and dining areas on the first floor and drink vending machines on the second and third floors. The place is HUGE so a great place to take the kiddies and walk around until they're tired. They'll probably enjoy the dinosaur exhibit on the second floor the most. Wait a few minutes and the dinosaurs will roar and move their heads and maybe pretend to chew (open and close their maws).

PLENTY of parking and unfortunately NOT close to any subway station, so you'll have to grab a cab or rideshare but seems taxis and transportation are aplenty in the city and surrounding environs.

And...it's FREE for now. Museum closes at 5pm so make sure you leave by 430-445 so you can hike back to the storage area if you checked anything in as they also close at 5pm.

Enjoy!

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This is a great place to walk around and generally kill time while shopping for nothing in particular. Nearby is the Paulaner Brewhouse for super fantastic food, coffee and drinks, outdoor patio dining or just hanging and people watching.