@Liumingke: referring to an event 8years ago doenst prove anything. Things in China change so quickly.

About the visa and changing school thing. It depends on your home country and also whether you are male or female. If your home country has currently good relationships with China, you can expect to get your visa or renew your visa without hassle. If there is a lady in the school office and you are a guy and put on a big flirty smile on your face, she will be very helpful.

@Geezer: China runs only on relationships nothing else. I didnt quite understand this senetence "spend money making you a legal, albeit temporary, resident". The school charges school fees, registration fees and so on and if you change school, they wont give you any money back. So actually they havent lost anything except for face/repuation as a student likes another school better but not money.

@Serrure: About the disgrace, I was usually asked, if there werent any appropriate guys back in my home country. And you're right. There are less of these white guys in Kunming. You'd rather find them in Shanghai, Beijing, Chengdu and other Cities with foreigner who only come to China for work. These guys, although living on and off in China for several years, can only say 'meinv' and 'zhe ge'.

About the dating and marriage part. I once dated a Chinese guy. After 6 weeks of relationship, we went out for dinner as usual, nothing suspicious. When we arrived it was a very expensive restaurant and his parents and grandparents were already waiting for us. I grinned and beart it even when his family starting discussion when we should get married, asked about my date of birth (to ask a fortune teller about the right date to get married) and hunxue (mixed raced children) were a better choice and we could have more than just one child. His family wanted to have at least two. Afterwards I told him off and explained to him that he should do it again without letting me know. One week later he proposed to me o_O He said that his family thinks Im a good choice since I can speak Chinese and I'm white and from a rich country. His father was also already looking for an apartment for us, since they wanted us to live in China. That was the final straw and finally gave up on dating Chinese guys.

Being the only woman in this discussion is not very easy, but since this discussion seems imbalanced I'd like to share my opinion.

Someone said:

"I find that Western women tend to want an ideal of a man — the perfect man — who has the right line and does the right things. If I approach a Western woman, I am supposed to speak just the right lines, be funny, say just the right jokes, stand the right way, pose the right way, and have just that right sentence or word. But Chinese women, if I am just friendly and natural, they will talk to me. That is the main difference to me."

I was in the States just for holiday, so I can only talk about "approaching European girls", but this is the most stupid thing I heard so far. Have you spoken to one of your female friends about it? Im pretty sure, they could have given you some advice for the next date. It's just another way of saying that you dont know how to approach girls and are very insecure. The difference with Chinese girls, the ones without rich laowai experience, is that they think this (what seems weird to Westeners) behaviour is typically foreign. Some of them also dont bother too much, as the foreigner can provide them with other things (not meant in a negative sense).

I have a couple of very good friends who came to China for job reasons or for studying. They all have Chinese girlfriends/wives now and Im very happy for them as they never had a real relationship back home since I can remember.

So, where did my friends find their girlfriends/wives?

1. at University in China and back home
2. Language exchange in China and back home
3. When travelling around China
4. at work (the girl used to be his translator)

For me a looser laowai is someone who comes to China, finds a Chinese girlfriend, makes her pregnant and then forces her to have an abortion, because he already has a family back home or doesnt want to take responsibilty. Then these guys go onto the next Chinese girl and it starts all over again. Some of them are even so kind to pay for the medical expenses.

And finally, why me and my girlfriends are not attracted to Chinese men. We all had Chinese boyfriends though and I only speak from our experience. In terms of physical attraction, most Chinese men have the body figure of an adolescent back home. But, look is only one part of attractiveness. In terms of character and personality, there are three groups of Chinese men. One is submissive, bossy/imperious and the thrid group is "I want a foreign girlfriend trophy". The second and third groups are the worst. We experienced things like "Can you put on some sunblocker?! I want you to stay white", 'I want sex now' ' I dont want to' ' I dont care, I want. You are my girlfriend, so it's your duty to make me happy', 'I want to get married next year and I want to have a son', 'I dont care if you want to leave me, I wont let you leave me. I know your passport number and I have proof that you worked illegaly in China". And so on. When you break up, they will stalk you, call your friends, show up at your house and workplace, call you so often that you need to change your number and your email address. Two of my friends went back home, because of them. Some of the Chinese guys even had degrees from Western universities.

@lalataille: "I am willing to listen without judging you." That sounds pretty condescending to me. So sorry, I wont answer your question. 1. It's off topic 2. As you are MMteacher, at some various other discussion you made clear that you wont accept any other opinion than yours, and more importantly these problems are caused by the foreigner itself.

@Dazzer: It might be that my English is not good enough to express myself. What I meant was, I lived in different cities in China with a high percentage of foreigners and saw and met many foreign guys there. Some of them behaved so badly and disrespectful not only to Chinese girls that I, myself, even felt ashamed for them. I heard 'What happens in China stays in China' from a lot of them. I think you may also be aware of it, so you might also can put ypurself in our position. So I just found the phrase "foreign gentleman" very funny as it assumes that every foreign guy is a gentleman.

@Culture: How do you define a Man man?

General question: Chinese men are mostly not very attractive for Western girls. So, what makes a Chinese woman so attractive for you foreign guys?

@blobbles: I couldnt agree more.

Plus, some underestimate the language and cultural barrier that makes it even more difficult. And those who couldnt get a partner in the West, come to China or other Asian countries and get all of a sudden all the attention from the girls and start acting like Don Juan because they are not used to all the attention. And Im not sure whether those guys can actually distinguish between a gold digger and a nice girl.

@Daithi: Sorry I dont wear high heels either.
@Dazzer: Asking someone to put him/herself in your position has nothing to do with "playing the gender card". But still, I dont think most foreign guys know how different it can be if you are a foreign girl in China. Just take it as seeing China from a different perspective.
And I do wonder why people who have a go at others most of the time, get so offended when someone just asks "Gentlemen in China?"