Ok, that's fine for me.
I have nothing against you Dazzer! It just looked a bit weird to me but I accept the fact that I might have misunderstood it. 误会,误解
Let's forget it and leave it here for this part.
@The Dudeson's
I do not think it is a silly discussion, I find it quite interesting to be able to express and read others opinion about the topic.
That said, I have to say I quite agree with most of the points you mentionned in your [long but interesting] message.
Sure, certificate is not evrything, especially 2 weeks TEFL, which I do not consider as qualified if one have it, but I think it can be a good start to see that one studied at a "teacher's school" or followed a course that is designed to prepare to become a teacher (method, pedagogy and so on). I think it will be always better than nothing or 2 weeks TEFL. Further then, someone not having that kind of qualification can also be doing the task correctly (and be a so called "good teacher"), after getting lots of experience in the area of teaching. Certification, qualification isn't absolutely a guarranty, I agree, but it might give a kind of insurrance that one is not totally ignorant about being a teacher and moreover being a good teacher. Don't you think?
Quality has nothing to do with qualification or certification, again I agree, but same point like above, IMO you might have more chances to reach a better level of quality with someone learned about how to deal with a class (deal with good students, bad, students, naughty students, again pedagogy, in general: class managing skills while following your teaching objectives. It's not that easy and I'm sure you know about it).
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The natural tendency is towards the less qualified because they are just more realistic and (sad to say it) more professional when it comes to training, instructions, and self study. In my experience most qualified teacher take qualified as KNOW IT ALL/KNOW EVERYTHING.
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I agree [partially]. How do you deal with unqualified teachers that are unable to reply students question, giving a : euuuh, huummm, oohhh, ok maybe it's because what what ... I consider that to be a problem while facing students trying to understand the language in its subtile way, when the level is already not bad (after several years of study). Same for us [foreigners], what do you think if you face a teacher supposed to help you to progress in Chinese and when you ask : When/why use "不" and/or "沒 ...", would you accept a reply like : euuuh, huummm, oohhh, ok maybe it'd be because what what ... (quite unsure, unconfident reply). That's not what I called quality or qualified.
I think there is a minimum you should know about the language, which a 'user' of this language, even native, might not be able to explain precisely why it is so. You know how to use it, but if you are unable to explain it precisely, can you provide quality teaching ? Can you be a teacher in that language (in kunming, yes for sure. Somewhere else out of China, yes probably. But to me, that is mediocre)
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I would pay up to 500RMB per hour, if I could find 'That' head teacher that I could just walk up to and say: "Fill the classes, market yourself well through quality classes, hire good staff, train and cooperate with the other departments, build some good marketing & sales material and events including yourself (thus guaranteeing job safety). Design/ adapt curriculums, a plan for regional quality control as well as homework systems and parent communication and feedback...etc.
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Agree 100%, same here! Unfortunately those people are very hard to find!
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I couldn't agree more the place where you learn teaching is at the job. No difference with doctors, technicians, lawyers.
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The Dudeson's, how is it possible to be a doctor or lawyer without having any basis in the area ? One, at least, needs to know the basic stuff, don't you think so ? Otherwise, you are going to mislead lots of your customers or even kill lots of your patients, before you reach the level of being a good lawyer or a good doctor. I hardly understand your point on this one. This is less true (but still true imo) regarding teaching/education area.
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That college gave them some nice background knowledge
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If I understand well, finally you are also considering minimum background knowledge is necessary. (maybe I did not understand well the previous part, I'll readit again ;) )
@Magnifico
Sorry, but I do not agree with your statement that if you studied and graduated from Chemistry area to become a Chemistry teacher, you are able to do it for Music/Math or any other subject than Chemistry (maybe Physics would be ok, Idk I know very little in that area).
Btw, I did not say that they are stupid or lazy or not smart or whatever. I just said if you are an expert in Chemistry, you won't be able to reply student asking you subtile question about the language (linguistic). I do not see how that is possible (or you studied linguistic at the same time and in that case you are VERY smart, yes).
@Tonyaod
Ok, if you say so I'm happy to believe you, but I'm not really convinced. Especially, if you read Dazzer's secong and third reply to me using "praps" (many times), that word (eye dialect to point out ... google it you'll understand). Actually, I do not really care about trolls, they can say I'm too sensitive or whatever, I don't care, can say what they want, cause finally they are not trying to make any progress in the discussion.
But I'd be curious to know about what is "something else" you are relating to ...
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a lot of foreigners that apply for positions are usually not qualified because the qualified ones already have a job and are pretty happy where they are.
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Yes, that's what I'm guessing too. Sad for those struggling and trying to level up the teaching/education quality here in kmg.
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Some might say this is utopic, the way I'm seing it (quality teaching, quality education, pedagogy, qualified or not and so on ...). That's not absolutely wrong, but what kind of reference should one take to try to build for the future ? (like you are telling @The Dudeson's / and I agree )
Low level, bad or average should be the reference ? I do not think so. Even, it is clear that in the real world, it won't be possible to reach the "perfect". Having the perfect method, perfect way of doing, perfect teachers and so on ... But I', still convinced, that it should be the reference one should take to try to improve and make it better for the future!
Thanks for all your inputs and for reading, and sorry for the long post.
PS: down the thread it's about child care, kindergarter, 0-6 teaching and sorry I'm not really interested in that (in this thread at least)
praps, yes maybe. but I don't think so according the different discussion about the topic here on GK forum (about $$$ mainly), concerning foreign [native] English teachers. 200 isn't attractive to qualified teachers ?
praps it's not ok to hire someone using any kind of dialect to be a teacher (especially when it is done on purpose to denigrate somone else), which should be able to express in a "kind of" standard English!
praps, you don't understand very well what is meant with qualified, certified, professional, experienced teacher.
and if you are on the topic only to point the non-standard English of the users joining the topic, please let me tell you that your comments are useless! This is not a competition here to see who will have the most standard written English. You are not bringing any point to the discussion except trolling. Btw, this topic is not dedicated to native English speakers, praps that's what you think !?
I never said I'm a native and my English is perfect, but it should be enough to have an exchange about the topic. I don't see the point when you try to exclude non native from the discussion. There's no reason to see only natives taking part on this thread. I'm not sure you red the different advices given by the forum to keep the things civil.
Btw, I know quite well about the crappy situation in kmg.
Schools paying low, no quality control or even consideration about quality education, money oriented instead of education oriented, and so on.
Non-natives teaching English in a ... funny way, not to say in a bad way, natives being everything but teachers.(I mean regarding their degree, certification, name it as you want) and teaching English also in a funny way. (—->monkey show? probably not true for all of them).
I don't say that it is the case for everybody here, but one will have to recognize that this is not (absolutely not) an exception.
I'm not trying to belittle anyone or any category of people, just trying to get a better overview of the situation (facts).
Same with Chinese "teachers" applying to work as an English teacher (for Chinese) or Chinese teachers to teach foreigners. You could not imagine what kind of CV's you'd have the chance to see ... Anyone will apply, chemistry teacher, math teacher, music teacher [and you'll note that those at least are teachers lol], nurse, coming from any kind of area like economic, accounting, marketing, car selling, tour guide and so on ...
At one point you don't know if you should laugh of cry out of desperation!
Dazzer: haha, very useful post to the discussion here! Btw, what's your point?
tomman, I believe you, I'm sure there are qualified teachers in Kunming. Am I wrong when I imagine they are not the majority ? A small minority ? While taking part of recruitment process for private schools in Kunming and seeing a good number of CV's, I can tell that the number of qualified, certified, professional, experienced teachers in Kunming was less than 10% out of all those I had the chance to meet. Ok, I did not see them all, clearly. But isn't that already a quite good overview ? Or maybe I might have been very unlucky to only get in touch with natives but not what I'd call a qualified, certified, professional, experienced teacher.
You can name about 5, ok but 5 out of how many ? How many so called teachers (Dazzer?) do you know are teaching without being "real" teachers ? That's what I'm interested in.
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