I'm an engineer starting a new engineering job to be based in Kunming, initially at least. Previously I was working in Vietnam and prior to that I was a Chinese language student in Kunming.
I still have a valid Chinese resident permit for study purposes, valid only until the 10th of September. My understanding is that I will need to apply for a work "Z" visa outside of China and then re-enter China using that new visa rather than being able to convert my existing student visa into a work visa inside China. Is this correct?
Alternatively, would it be possible to enter China using a tourist or business visa and then get that converted inside China at the Kunming PSB office on Beijing Lu into a "Z" visa or not? I ask this because I originally entered China in late 2010 on a tourist visa and then it was converted to a student visa inside the country.
If not, I would rather get all the paperwork done for a work visa, which I would be applying for in either Bangkok (most likely) or alternatively Chiang Mai or Vientiane, Laos. I have read the visa instructions on the Chinese Embassy, Bangkok website and although it's lengthy, I will endeavor to meet those requirements.
My understanding is that my company will need to send all the documents required (and I will ask them to specify on the letterhead that I will apply in Bangkok, or alternatively one of those other two consulates though Bangkok is my most preferred option) and I will thus hopefully be able to get my paperwork completed in the next couple of weeks.
Does anyone know what the validity of the visa I seek to obtain is (I believe 1-year and multiple entry) and any special or other requirements that I need to know about?
In terms of the health requirements, I've recently had a check-up after a bit of a health scare last month but I'm back to good health now. I remember having to get a blood test for HIV and sexually transmitted diseases done in Kunming when I enrolled as a student back in 2010 but since I already had one done back in January at home as part of a routine check-up could that be used for this visa? My health is in perfect shape and the last thing I want is to get another needle stuck in my arm, especially when my HIV results are negative and thus a further test would become redundant.
To be honest, I think someone wanting to be in a class with no other "westerners" has some serious self-esteem, hatred of one's own background or westerners in general (if not a westerner themselves) or other issues. Even if he/she is a westerner themselves, this is a strange question.
Incidentally, there are far more students from regional countries studying in Kunming than westerners. If you don't want to see many westerners, Kunming is the place to be although there are more and more foreigners in Kunming these days.
But because they come in such large numbers, for example there might be 100 Thais studying at Minzu Daxue at any one time compared to say, the 2 Swiss people you might find studying at Yunnan University and the 10 Americans, you'll find the Thais (and Laotians) etc. are able to hang around each other, making no (or very few) Chinese friends, speaking only Thai or Lao with each other and thus not really benefiting from their experience in Kunming. Many of them keep going on and on about how they would rather be back at home because Kunming is cold, the people are not as friendly as back home, the food isn't that great, blah, blah, blah...you get my drift. I've asked tons of Thai and Lao students about their experiences in Kunming and this is what they tell me.
From personal experience, it's the western students who are more likely to speak up in class due to being more confident than students from other Asian countries and when they do, they ask questions in Chinese rather than English (except during the first few weeks of a beginner's class).
I agree with The Dudeson's that Kunming may have water management issues as it can't be a problem with no rainfall. Although January-February this year were very sunny with weeks of beautiful sunshine and no rain, that's normal for Kunming given the climatic zone it lies in. Kunming also always receives plenty of rain during the summer monsoon, which is now. Regions of India, Bangladesh, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and northern Australia (amongst others) all have similar wet-dry climate cycles with almost daily sunshine during the dry season (with lower temperatures as well) and almost daily rain during the rainy season and Kunming, being just north of some of these regions is no exception. While there may be differences year-to-year, the chance of any of these regions subject to a monsoonal season with absolutely no rain is virtually zero.
Personally, I don't see what's wrong with flying on a photocopy of your passport and visa along with a note from the Chinese PSB as many posters here seem to have done at least in the latter case. I would say at least have a photocopy of your passport with you and you should be fine.
When it comes to travelling overland, by car or bus/train (except some HSR services where they do want to see your passport) and then staying at hotels along the way, my experience has been that most hotels don't care about your passport.
In fact, on a trip back in December to Dali none of the 6 people in my group (4 foreigners and 2 Chinese) had any documents of identity with them at all, except me. I had my Chinese driver's license, which was happily accepted even though the hotel we stayed originally asked for a passport (and ID card for the 2 Chinese people in my party). They also happily accepted for all of my friends to write down their details in lieu of a passport.
Same thing in Zhaotong. I travelled with 2 Chinese and 1 Vietnamese person. My Vietnamese friend did have his passport with him and showed it; I didn't - no problem. On other trips most hotels didn't even want to sight my passport so the police being called when you attempt to check-in without one is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard - even knowing that China is a totalitarian state but really, such an action would be considered highly offensive in my book and I pity you for having experienced that @Spartans.
@tigertiger, western union has plenty of offices in Kunming, however, the reason for going to make a wire transfer through a Bank of China branch outweigh the reasons for using western union in my opinion simply because western union charges much higher fees.
Even though the Bank of China charges RMB 200 (or about US$32) per transfer, compared to only AUD 20 (about US$ 21) from an Australian account to any other country or CHF 20 (about US $22) from a Swiss account to any other country, I'm pretty sure that the Bank of China fee is lower than the western union transfer fee, which depends on the amount of money sent.
Whereas a bank's wire (or telegraphic) transfer fee is always fixed at a certain amount for transfers up to the daily limit (usually US$ 10,000 or up to US$ 50,000 depending on the origin bank and country).
Yeah there are lots of hebrew speaking travellers in Vang Vieng these days. Same with regional tourists from Thailand - frankly given that Thai and Lao are nearly the same language I don't see how a Thai speaker can't read Lao, but apparently many can't hence the reason for the Thai signs you saw. Same in Thailand - at petrol (gas) stations near the Lao border, which are popular with Lao motorists you can see signs in Lao next to the Thai since there are some subtle differences between the two languages.
@Senorboogiewoogie, in Laos everything is flexible due to the power of money aka corruption. I was in Vang Vieng around midnight back in 2009 and it was still noisy in parts, but generally quiet outside the center of action.
Also, while perhaps not a good idea, every foreigner living in Laos knows you can sleep with a Lao citizen of the opposite sex in the same room if you are discreet about it and you'll only get in trouble if you piss someone off. I also think that the government only sees the images of westerners in Thailand and the Philippines "buying" girls at girlie bars and wants to maintain a more lowkey image, but naturally no Vietnamese or Chinese (or Thai) truck driver would be without his karaoke and Lao prostitute in the border provinces. The reality is that prostitution is as big in Laos as anywhere else, but maybe just a little less visible. However, in Vientiane there are large numbers of local girls with western or other foreign "boyfriends", or in genuine relationships.
Haha, well I don't think I was that pessimistic, and I do agree with you on some of your points - although being quite knowledgeable about languages myself, there is more overlapping of the dominant language from the more economically powerful country into the less dominant one than the other way round - i.e. despite what you said, there is very little Lao spoken in Vietnam, but the other way round there is quite a bit of Vietnamese understood in Laos. Lao officials on the Lao-Viet border can usually speak some Vietnamese, but Viet officials generally can't speak Lao. I have been there and know this for a fact. Same with Viet officials on the Chinese border - they can speak Chinese, but Chinese officials speak only Chinese and English, not Viet.
Vietnamese is also only understood amongst a very small minority of people on the Thai side of the Lao border, not many as you say...same with Thai in Myanmar but not Burmese in Thailand (except amongst the immigrant workers and some Burmese signboards near the Burmese border) in Thailand. As mentioned above, Chinese is quite strong in northern Laos, but Lao is non-existant anywhere in Chinese territory except when it comes to the Dai language, which is fairly close but not exactly the same language.
I've also found that the majority of South-East Asian Chinese language students here in Kunming don't speak much English at all for some strange reason. The ones back in their home countries that didn't major in Chinese are often quite good at English, so I guess there aren't that many polyglots around as you say - 2 languages seems to be what the average person knows and not more.
Although if we're on the subject of which SE Asian language to learn IN ADDITION TO English, which will continue to be important, then it must be Thai. Thai is understood throughout Thailand, Laos, western Cambodia and the Shan State of Myanmar. No other SE Asian language is as dominant as Thai.
This is reflected in the much greater interest amongst Chinese students in studying Thai than say, Vietnamese. I have met tons of Chinese students interested in, or with at least one semester of Thai behind them, but only two who had studied Vietnamese.
Sounds good in principle, but learning to speak all SE Asian languages would require you to be some kind of linguistic genius and probably half a lifetime of devotion. Speaking only one of the languages from the region, say Thai or Burmese or Vietnamese, wouldn't help much in neighboring countries since each language in the region is not mutually intelligible with only limited overlapping...so such an approach would mean limiting your engagement to one country.
In parts of northern Laos and northern Myanmar, no attempts are made by Chinese settlers to learn the local language - everything (signboards, menus etc.) is in Chinese and locals [Laotians and Burmese] who can't speak this foreign language [Chinese] are left out.
Also, I don't think English should be forgotten - despite various levels of English fluency in the region, English is still the only global lingua franca and the global language of business. English is the only language you can successfully use in all SE Asian countries. While it's great to know Thai, Lao, Burmese etc. it isn't realistic unless you are living in those countries. I have also noticed that just like with English, Chinese learners of these SE Asian languages really struggle, and when encountering a local that speaks good English, the conversation will usually inevitably switch to English since the local will assume the other party can't speak their language well enough. It's only once fluency is achieved that this is overcome.
My recommendation would be for both Chinese and other foreigners interested in investing/doing business with the region to know how to speak English fluently, followed by becoming proficient in at least the basics of their host countries' language to at least show some interest and respect. Apart from those interested in becoming translators however, I personally think time and money is better spent gaining technical skills and then applying some language skills on the side - not the other way round.
I've done that and I'm doing quite well. I am an engineer that has worked in Vietnam and Thailand and I speak Thai and some Lao with an almost native accent (and can read and write both languages) - something that is of enormous benefit to me, but I have achieved this as a side passion rather than as my main job. Still, I barely speak Vietnamese and don't have the energy or time to work on it - in any case, doing business isn't difficult as most educated people there speak English anyway and I have a very good friend who helps me so it's all good. Ditto for Cambodia and Myanmar.
There is an error in this article. Lao Airlines flies only twice (2) a week from Luang Prabang to Jinghong, not daily. They only just restarted this service recently and I highly doubt there would be enough demand for a daily service at this time. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this service were to once again be suspended in the near future. Luang Prabang-Kunming flights are said to be restarted again in the near future too, but no date has been given.
Check out online copies of Lao Airlines' Champa inflight magazine for more details.
What do you mean by "foreigners"? Everyone who is a non-citizen of Myanmar and wants to travel there is a foreigner. I doubt Burmese citizens require visas to return to their homeland.
Horrible tasteless, thick-crusted "cardboard" like pizzas that are a far cry from what they should be like. Way overpriced too. Wine may be good, but why bother when the nearby Prague Cafe makes much better pizza at a more reasonable price?
Great Mexican food and ice cream, excellent Raspberry smoothies and an overall good atmosphere. Can't do much about the low ceilings on the second floor, but the early closing time could be adjusted, after all, the nearby French Cafe closes at 1am.
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Getting Away: Vang Vieng
发布者Yeah there are lots of hebrew speaking travellers in Vang Vieng these days. Same with regional tourists from Thailand - frankly given that Thai and Lao are nearly the same language I don't see how a Thai speaker can't read Lao, but apparently many can't hence the reason for the Thai signs you saw. Same in Thailand - at petrol (gas) stations near the Lao border, which are popular with Lao motorists you can see signs in Lao next to the Thai since there are some subtle differences between the two languages.
Getting Away: Vang Vieng
发布者@Senorboogiewoogie, in Laos everything is flexible due to the power of money aka corruption. I was in Vang Vieng around midnight back in 2009 and it was still noisy in parts, but generally quiet outside the center of action.
Also, while perhaps not a good idea, every foreigner living in Laos knows you can sleep with a Lao citizen of the opposite sex in the same room if you are discreet about it and you'll only get in trouble if you piss someone off. I also think that the government only sees the images of westerners in Thailand and the Philippines "buying" girls at girlie bars and wants to maintain a more lowkey image, but naturally no Vietnamese or Chinese (or Thai) truck driver would be without his karaoke and Lao prostitute in the border provinces. The reality is that prostitution is as big in Laos as anywhere else, but maybe just a little less visible. However, in Vientiane there are large numbers of local girls with western or other foreign "boyfriends", or in genuine relationships.
Booming Southeast Asian trade necessitates bilingual graduates
发布者Haha, well I don't think I was that pessimistic, and I do agree with you on some of your points - although being quite knowledgeable about languages myself, there is more overlapping of the dominant language from the more economically powerful country into the less dominant one than the other way round - i.e. despite what you said, there is very little Lao spoken in Vietnam, but the other way round there is quite a bit of Vietnamese understood in Laos. Lao officials on the Lao-Viet border can usually speak some Vietnamese, but Viet officials generally can't speak Lao. I have been there and know this for a fact. Same with Viet officials on the Chinese border - they can speak Chinese, but Chinese officials speak only Chinese and English, not Viet.
Vietnamese is also only understood amongst a very small minority of people on the Thai side of the Lao border, not many as you say...same with Thai in Myanmar but not Burmese in Thailand (except amongst the immigrant workers and some Burmese signboards near the Burmese border) in Thailand. As mentioned above, Chinese is quite strong in northern Laos, but Lao is non-existant anywhere in Chinese territory except when it comes to the Dai language, which is fairly close but not exactly the same language.
I've also found that the majority of South-East Asian Chinese language students here in Kunming don't speak much English at all for some strange reason. The ones back in their home countries that didn't major in Chinese are often quite good at English, so I guess there aren't that many polyglots around as you say - 2 languages seems to be what the average person knows and not more.
Although if we're on the subject of which SE Asian language to learn IN ADDITION TO English, which will continue to be important, then it must be Thai. Thai is understood throughout Thailand, Laos, western Cambodia and the Shan State of Myanmar. No other SE Asian language is as dominant as Thai.
This is reflected in the much greater interest amongst Chinese students in studying Thai than say, Vietnamese. I have met tons of Chinese students interested in, or with at least one semester of Thai behind them, but only two who had studied Vietnamese.
Booming Southeast Asian trade necessitates bilingual graduates
发布者Sounds good in principle, but learning to speak all SE Asian languages would require you to be some kind of linguistic genius and probably half a lifetime of devotion. Speaking only one of the languages from the region, say Thai or Burmese or Vietnamese, wouldn't help much in neighboring countries since each language in the region is not mutually intelligible with only limited overlapping...so such an approach would mean limiting your engagement to one country.
In parts of northern Laos and northern Myanmar, no attempts are made by Chinese settlers to learn the local language - everything (signboards, menus etc.) is in Chinese and locals [Laotians and Burmese] who can't speak this foreign language [Chinese] are left out.
Also, I don't think English should be forgotten - despite various levels of English fluency in the region, English is still the only global lingua franca and the global language of business. English is the only language you can successfully use in all SE Asian countries. While it's great to know Thai, Lao, Burmese etc. it isn't realistic unless you are living in those countries. I have also noticed that just like with English, Chinese learners of these SE Asian languages really struggle, and when encountering a local that speaks good English, the conversation will usually inevitably switch to English since the local will assume the other party can't speak their language well enough. It's only once fluency is achieved that this is overcome.
My recommendation would be for both Chinese and other foreigners interested in investing/doing business with the region to know how to speak English fluently, followed by becoming proficient in at least the basics of their host countries' language to at least show some interest and respect. Apart from those interested in becoming translators however, I personally think time and money is better spent gaining technical skills and then applying some language skills on the side - not the other way round.
I've done that and I'm doing quite well. I am an engineer that has worked in Vietnam and Thailand and I speak Thai and some Lao with an almost native accent (and can read and write both languages) - something that is of enormous benefit to me, but I have achieved this as a side passion rather than as my main job. Still, I barely speak Vietnamese and don't have the energy or time to work on it - in any case, doing business isn't difficult as most educated people there speak English anyway and I have a very good friend who helps me so it's all good. Ditto for Cambodia and Myanmar.
Getting Away: Luang Prabang
发布者There is an error in this article. Lao Airlines flies only twice (2) a week from Luang Prabang to Jinghong, not daily. They only just restarted this service recently and I highly doubt there would be enough demand for a daily service at this time. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this service were to once again be suspended in the near future. Luang Prabang-Kunming flights are said to be restarted again in the near future too, but no date has been given.
Check out online copies of Lao Airlines' Champa inflight magazine for more details.