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Forums > Living in Kunming > How are Black-Aqmericans treated?

Anyway OP, to make your stay in Kunming and China as memorable as possible, you shouldn't worry too much about discrimination. Just realize that it does exist, but just try to go about your days as best you can and understand that whatever discrimination you may encounter is usually quite subtle and often born out of ignorance and lack of exposure to immigrants more than anything else. At least in Kunming, foreigners are still rare and thus few locals have had any real dealings with them so hence they are still treated as a kind of novelty, which for someone like me who does not like fame, is annoying, but at least it's never threatening.

Take a look at this article to give you some perspective: www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/02/09/090209fa_fact_osnos

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Forums > Living in Kunming > How are Black-Aqmericans treated?

@HFCAMPO, sorry but your last sentence hints at ignorance and lack of knowledge about what consitutes racism. Let's not get off topic here by comparing America to China but let me just comment on your "getting pulled over by the police in AmeriKa (it's spelled AmeriCa dude)" comment: In a country as diverse as America, that kind of crap is not going to happen.

But yes, in China, if you are white, black, an ethnic minority, i.e. anyone not from the majority you WILL experience discrimination, and yes, it is called racism. Just because racism in China may be more subtle than in other nations, it doesn't mean there's no problem.

Similarly, how do you know that the people you walk past aren't saying something negative about you behind your back? I mean, if I spent all my time worrying about what everyone might be saying about me as I walk on a street in Kunming I'd surely lose a lot of sleep, but at least I'm not in such a state of denial to think that people will treat me the same as locals. I can guarantee you that there WILL be locals talking about you behind your back; this wouldn't happen if you were considered to be a local.

China is a homogeneous nation and homogeneous nations are by definition proud nations that will discriminate against minorities even if they don't want to admit it. In Asia, Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore are all much more heterogeneous than China and similarly, much more used to foreigners, thus discrimination will be felt much less in those countries than in China. The same comparison can be made between the USA/Canada/Australia and Poland/Russia/Ukraine etc. As a minority in any of the first three countries no one will even notice you, but in the latter three countries discrimination does occur quite frequently, particularly in Russia.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > How are Black-Aqmericans treated?

@Calgrad unfortunately, there is some prejudice held against foreigners and people with darker skin in China in general. This includes SE Asians such as Thais (those without Chinese ethnicity) and Malaysians with only moderately tanned skin, the former receiving a bad rap in the eyes of many local Kunmingers according to my Chinese friends. This is not so much because of their appearence (indeed, there even seems to be some negativity towards ethnic Chinese Thais) but probably has something to do with cultural differences and possibly superior cultural attitudes on the part of both parties.

When it comes to black Africans and African Americans etc. the Chinese view is often one of extreme ignorance and occassionally downright prejudice, with mothers regularly shielding their kids once sight of a black person is made, although this is by no means the reaction everyone will give you. Most people will simply ignore you, just like they ignore me given that Kunming is a big city, but if you walk long distances from place to place there will probably be the odd person or two who decides they need to comment on your appearence or something - they'll probably do it behind your back, but that's not necessarily any more reassuring. It must be said that most racism in China is subtle and very rarely involves violence. So don't worry about that - what you will have to deal with are stares, comments and other forms of ignorance, many of which will be quite subtle in nature, but discriminatory nevertheless.

I will never understand the racist attitude by some Chinese that you have to be white to teach English, assuming that's the kind of work you are looking for. However, I think it could be that because China is so homogeneous, and the Chinese are used to associating someone's physical appearence with certain countries, they may not be aware that America, Australia, Canada etc. are actually very multicultural and that there are plenty of non-white people living there who are also citizens of those countries and fully integrated etc. This likely leads to the view that black people are "non-native" speakers and thus not qualified to teach. In addition to this, the prevailing negative attitude towards black people doesn't help either.

Personally, I think there are many people of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds who are very well qualified to teach English, probably much more than I am (I am an engineer, but in the past I did teach a bit of English on the side). For starters, I don't have any teaching qualifications and I don't even like teaching, it's mundane and offers no advancement opportunities, hence my lack of motivation in the past.

Therefore, get out there and fight any prejudice you may encounter! Be self-aware but don't let anyone get to you. Find a job and try your best to ensure that you won't be rejected because of what you look like. Most of all, try to make the most of your experience in Kunming. Like others have said, once people get to know you, the barriers do break down.

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Forums > Living in Kunming > Studying + Teaching part-time

Come on guys...everyone knows that the Chinese authorities turn a blind eye to "teachers" working on student visas. Nobody cares as long as you don't commit a "real" crime or upset anyone.

China isn't the US yet when it comes to enforcing action against overstayers and those that have worked illegally. Nor does working illegally mean you can't come to China again if caught.

Consider this example: I know of a young Lao Chinese language student who used to "study" at Yunnan University of Nationalities. This kid, who was 21 or so at the time, didn't really do much in the way of study, but only showed up to class once a month or so, the rest of the time partying at night and sleeping during the day.

Once his money ran low, he was forced to drink at the dorms, and that's where the trouble started. One night he was drunk and became violent, hitting another student and then smashing a door (this is after he had already damaged something in his own room).

The kid was deported to Laos, but his parents simply applied for a new passport and Chinese visa and lo and behold, he came back to Kunming to study at another university within a few months.

Something like this couldn't happen in Australia or the USA - if you get deported you can't automatically come back, even with a new passport.

Not that working illegally as a teacher is a good idea nor is smashing a door (haha) but, when it comes to the former, many schools will insist it's OK if asked. I'd say, keep a low profile and don't worry.

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Forums > Travel Yunnan > Websites in Laos and Vietnam.

What blobbles said is exactly right. OP, what made you think that YouTube is blocked in Laos and Vietnam? Just because they are "communist" and next to China doesn't mean they are anything like China! In fact, Laos is about as open an economy as you can find in this part of the world and they are trying to simplify doing business as much as possible.

YouTube is 100% accessible in both countries, and as far as I'm aware, there are generally no blocked websites in Laos, unlike in China. However, facebook is an on/off affair in Vietnam, though it can generally be accessed.

The only other country in the region (apart from North Korea of course) where the internet is heavily censored is Myanmar, but with the recent opening up of that country, this could change quite quickly in a positive direction (some years ago, even hotmail and yahoo mail as well as yahoo! news etc. were either inaccessible or very difficult to access in Myanmar).

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This is crazy! Sounds like the kind of thing you hear about happening in the US, not China. Anyway, they were arrested quickly and yes, Liumingke1234, they can and most likely will be given the maximum penalty for their crimes. I believe in China 14 year olds can be tried as adults. It doesn't say how old these teenagers are, but my guess is they are certainly in their mid to high teens.

Very sad indeed...I hope the new tenant is also a foreigner who opens up a similar bar or restaurant to you guys. Good luck with the future and hope to visit you in Lijiang or Shangri-la. In any case, stay in China! Restaurants/bars like yours really make places like Kunming feel cozier.

@Peter99, I agree that there could be many more independent Chinese tourists in Chiang Mai, or indeed in many other parts of the world in the future.

I have seen many independent Chinese tourists, many travelling by themselves in places like Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia. They usually have enough English to at least order from a menu though. It's kinda ridiculous for people like the young Chinese tourists above to not know what they "are ordering". If you ask me, except at Wenlie Jie and a few downtown areas, it's much more difficult to know what you are ordering in China!

Contrary to what is stated in this article, I don't think the Chinese can take away Thai jobs or properties because unlike in Laos, the Thais are fiercely protective of their rights and know what they are. Also, foreigners can't own land even if they become married to Thai citizens. With the exception of jobs requiring Chinese language skills, Chinese citizens wouldn't be able to find work in Thailand either and they can certainly forget about working in protected sectors like farming etc. so I think the fears raised above are unfounded unless Thailand opens up more but their restrictive property and work laws are probably in place to avoid such a scenario.

However, for now, the Chinese train project from Kunming through Laos connecting all the way to Singapore is not going to happen, but the Thais seem to be confident about a possible Japanese investment for some domestic HSR (high speed rail) lines in the near future. Personally, I would still put my money on the Chinese coming through eventually, but it might take 10+ years to happen so the original opening date of 2015 is now nothing more than a pipe dream given that the Chinese have now scaled back on HSR projects given safety issues, the resignation of the railway minister etc.

The road through Myanmar (Burma) from Mae Sai/Tachileik to China has too many restrictions on travel and since the Mae Sai crossing only allows travel to/from Mae Sai it can't be used by anyone planning on travelling overland between Thailand and China via Myanmar territory; thus Chinese and Thai/third party tourists/businesspeople etc. travelling overland between Thailand and China must go through Laos (or alternatively, Laos and Vietnam). I hope that with the recent positive developments in Myanmar that an overland route connecting Thailand and China and an upgrading of the Chinese/Burmese border post to an international one will happen, but until it does it won't become an option for anyone.

I wouldn't put my money on low-cost flight options to Kunming happening anytime soon, though eventually they should come through put this will depend entirely on demand for such services.

@invisible, the railway link from Kunming to the Vietnamese border has existed for like 100 years but only now does it look like it will reopen again after being closed for roughly 10 years now. As such, this will mean you can once again travel by rail from Kunming to Hanoi and beyond to Ho Chi Minh City. When it opens is unclear, but I'd say give it a year or so.

@pickley - hitchhiking is possible, but not really recommended due to the low cost of public transport and possible risk of things going wrong, though having said that hitchhiking is far safer in most parts of East Asia than in the USA for example. But you can still try anyway and it is surely a very interesting way of travelling.

I think Chinese truck drivers (starting in northern Laos, not far from the border) or Lao truck drivers (who wouldn't go much beyond Mengla) would help you cross the border, and then you could try flagging another vehicle to go further north. Alternatively, Chinese tourists driving themselves in southern Xishuangbanna or possibly in Laos itself might be willing to help you. It would be a good idea to offer some food, drinks or something for the ride and truck drivers often expect some payment anyway, but if you are nice and give them some food, cigarettes (if they smoke) or something else then that should make them happy enough without the need for monetary compensation. Every experience is different so you'll need to just try it out and see what happens.

@russell, it's Ji. There's a much faster way of translating English to Chinese these days and requires no travel outside of your own home: it's called google translate.

Anyway, from this itinerary it looks like the writer is about to enter Vietnam before he enters Laos, unless he backtracks first. Normally to travel from Kunming to Laos one would pass through Yuxi, Yuanjiang, Simao (Pu'er), Jinghong (Xieng Hung or Chiang Rung), Mengla (Muang La) and finally Mohan before reaching Laos. Of course while you can't cycle on the expressway, I have seen western cyclists on the highway between Jinghong and the border (there is currently no expressway there).

Therefore taking the backroads between Kunming and Jinghong would be the fastest way, but this cyclist's itinerary sounds more interesting and passes a more beautiful region of Yunnan - I too was very impressed by Yuanyang (hence my GoKM username right hehe), not to mention Lvchun and the Vietnamese borderlands before reaching Hekou.

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What do you mean by "foreigners"? Everyone who is a non-citizen of Myanmar and wants to travel there is a foreigner. I doubt Burmese citizens require visas to return to their homeland.

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Horrible tasteless, thick-crusted "cardboard" like pizzas that are a far cry from what they should be like. Way overpriced too. Wine may be good, but why bother when the nearby Prague Cafe makes much better pizza at a more reasonable price?

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Great Mexican food and ice cream, excellent Raspberry smoothies and an overall good atmosphere. Can't do much about the low ceilings on the second floor, but the early closing time could be adjusted, after all, the nearby French Cafe closes at 1am.