@HFCAMPO
Dude what are you reading?
I in no way changed what I accused you of!
Read it again. Perhaps you imagined that I claimed that you didn't tell him anything? Reading the sentence, it suggests a chronological order of action.
The only way we can deny this is if we quote half of my sentence, rather than the whole thing.

So, are you saying that you took credit for it, you did it, but it has nothing to do with you? You are only to be asked questions, not to be criticized. Ok, thanks, so, uh...
what is the point of anyone replying to anything that you wrote?

Look, if you mean to say that you had no idea that the punishments would be so unfair AT THE TIME, that is another thing entirely. But you seem to think it was justified. It is up to you to clear the air.

One thing I recommend is not saying/writing something online that you wouldn't say to someone's face. The stuff about ASS etc. is a bit over the top, don't you think? Seriously, you would have dental bills if you said that to a strangers face. Don't push your luck.
That is the end of my 2 cents here.

I don't know why I ever bother with anything besides basic Kunming Q and A stuff on these forums. From now on, I am going to take my own advice and just stick to replying to posts like "when does Metro close?, "How much do scooters cost?", etc.

People say anything they want when they are safeguarded, but when out in public it's a different situation.

As Wanderlei Silva once said to Chael Sonnen when they had to share a limo ride to UFC:

-You have respect, you no lose your teeth. (sic)

Non-smokers want to have the right to avoid smoke due to their personal or health issues (allergies/rhinitis) and NOT because they think they are superior to non-smokers.

Their concern is also backed up by law, the message is: respect.

Several things in the last post are do not sound respectful. Sounds like someone is trying to demand respect, for themselves or point of view, and using a law to leverage their argument.

@ Natsymir:

Ripping the guy's cigarette off his hand is "cruel", yet for a non-smoker having to endure an 11 hour bus trip Kunming-Tenchong with smoke circulating is also not cruel ?

Furthermore, is it still "cruel" to take the action I took when it was politely asked for the person to stop smoking a couple of times?

Keep in mind the law was on my side mind when I did that.

Your "VPN Access example" of a common law infraction cannot be compared to breaking a law that directly and negatively affects ANOTHER PERSON, such as the non-smoking law.

Natsymir, your have the morality and values of a 10 year old.

@ Dazzer: Laws are specially significant when they protect others from harm.

That is why non-smoking laws were created and successfully passed approval, despite having being heavily argued against and opposed by strong lobbies.
The post you mentioned was not an "argument", but instead, a reply directed to TCIexpat. I know my way around logic enough to logically infer without the use of leverages or fallacies, thanks.

I in no way changed what I accused you of! Read it again. Perhaps you imagined that I claimed that you didn't tell him anything?

If you know the laws so well, then you could've simply asked the driver not to smoke, quoted the statutes, and even threatened to report him, WITHOUT ACTUALLY REPORTING HIM.

Then you could have simply asked the driver not to smoke = According to you, I did NOT ask because you are clearly stating that I SHOULD or COULD have asked him not to smoke. Who is imagining? Who should read again?

One thing I recommend is not saying/writing something online that you wouldn't say to someone's face. The stuff about ASS etc. is a bit over the top, don't you think? I said nothing about ASS - I wrote - You ASSume and Judge rather then ask simple questions. Apparantly, you never heard of this expression. ASS+U+ME = When you ASSume, you make an ASS of U and Me. Perhaps this is only a military expression which civilians have never heard of.

Yes, you should use this forum to ask simple questions, not to criticize.
I don't know why I ever bother with anything besides basic Kunming Q and A stuff on these forums. From now on, I am going to take my own advice and just stick to replying to posts like "when does Metro close?, "How much do scooters cost?", etc. = This is clearly the best statement you have made today, I am glad you will take your own advice.

Finally, since you embarrased yourself yet again because you stated that you like this - Well I certainly enjoy embarrassing myself in public. Now you resort to threats = Seriously, you would have dental bills if you said that to a strangers face. Don't push your luck. To tell someone they would have dental bills is clearly a threat to knock their teeth out. Dont push your luck is clearly a warning and a threat. I would feel shame if I made a threat to someone I did not know. I would feel shame if I made a threat to an older and weaker person that I can easily hurt. I would feel shame if I made a threat to someone younger or weaker. I would feel shame to say that I enjoy embarrassing myself in public.

You are absolutely correct when you mentioned in another post that one should be very careful when choosing a martial arts teacher. A true Master teaches that violence is a last resort and only to be used defensively. Most importantly, a true Master will never teach a student to make threats or act as a bully. Read Sun Tzu in regards to choosing one's battles and assessing enemy strengths and weakness.

You initiated your posts directly to me for some reason. I never wrote a post asking Aaronb for his opinion or response. I did not solicit your response. I did not ask you any questions. I did not ask for your opinion. I did not ask if you thought my actions were right or wrong. I did not threaten you. I did not criticize you. I am only responding to your posts and using your own words which I cut and paste from your own posts and I am explaining the events that took place. When I make comments on this post, I do NOT direct my comments directly to someone unless they have directly contacted me first as is the case with you. Keep in Mind, when you begin a comment or post with another person's user name - then you are directing the comment specifically and directly to that ONE person. To direct a reply to a person who is asking a question is fine but when you direct criticism, sarcasm, judgement, or you want to play arm chair quaterback and replay and relive events of the past, and give advice of what SHOULD or COULD have been done, then you are opening yourself up endless possibilities. Read Teddy Roosevelt's - Man in the Arena.

I believe you have started this interchange based on one major error. That you think or assume that I am bragging or taking credit or enjoying what happened to the driver. If that is the case, then let me clarify again. I certainly did NOT know or enjoy what happened to the driver as I have explained to you many times. I had no idea what would happen to the driver. I just wrote on this post to INFORM others that the Mayors Hotline is just one method of getting positive results. No one who calls the hotline knows in advance what action they will take. The only reason I knew was because they called and wrote back to me explaining what action THEY already took.

What I find very ironic is that you sent me your first verbal attack immediately after I just finished writing about being calm, respectful, and not making personal attacks to other members of this forum.

Spartan: No, reporting him, a, presumably, poor chinese driver, so he loses a very significant amount of his, presumably, already small quantity of money is cruel. To tear the cigarette form his hand is just uncivilised. The difference between you causing him to get fined and him causing you to endure smoke is that -you- have travelled to a culture where you -have- to expect people to smoke everywhere. It's unfortunate, yes, but no different from you having to wear a veil if you were a foreign woman in Saudi Arabia. Because it's the chinese peoples culture, and not yours, it should be up to them how and when they want to change and stop smoking; what the government has written in the law is, to my mind, quite insigificant here.

That being said, sure, it was jerkass behavior of the bus driver as well, when he ignored your repeated requests; my reasoning above about it being his country etc does -not- mean he shouldn't respect you and your values and wishes, of course he should. The law actually being on your side does of course matter here; sure, you were in the right. But to cause him to lose that amount of money was an extremely disproportionate punishment for what he did, especially because everybody in China does what he does all the time, so it cannot be considered a grave misbehavior. Fair enough that you didn't know what would happen once you reported him, but personally, I would still feel bad for causing him to be (economically) hurt so severely, while, as it seemed to me, you almost bragged about doing so. But don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily considering you a jerkass or anything, I just reacted because your handling of the situation felt so wrong to me, so I tried to understand a little bit more of your perspective.

'...and then I...and then I...' I must admit it sounds a bit far-fetched.

HFCAMPO, you are technically and legally correct. I am just arguing for some human compassion. That much money and getting into trouble could truly have ruined him.

HFCAMPO I would also like to calmly and respectfully offer my opinion on going around town reporting people for minor infractions of the law. Is there any penalty so harsh, that you would gladly report someone and disclaim responsibility? For example, if the penalty for a smoking bus driver were public decapitation, would you still have reported him, and claimed that it had nothing to do with you? You directly caused this man to lose an enormous amount of money. He is already poor and working class, and he probably has a family to support.

I respectfully ask, do you go around Kunming quoting laws and demanding that people obey every law? Do you report waitresses, for example, who do not have a photograph and license around their necks? Do you also report litterers? If a restaurant is not up to your personal, Western standards of sanitation, do you immediately report them to the government? What I am saying is that you selectively report people based on your own, personal dislike for smoking.

I have to agree with others in this thread, that you have come to another culture, and it is your duty to respect that culture. It is not their duty to change their entire culture to agree with a foreigner's culture. If an immigrant in your home country insisted that you speak Farsi because that is the language he likes, would you immediately obey? If he reported you and somehow you lost over 50% of your wages, and your child had to go without food, would you think that he was in the right?