Yea I never felt the 60 year old thing was about ageism but just technical BS. Certainly still have a better chance of working here in China until I croak than I do back in the US. I will gradually shift to working PT at some places since there are certainly over 60 folks working in China but maybe not at public universities. Some of the private colleges seem to be more flexible here I sense but that may change by the time I reach 60 in seven years. The bottom line is my options back in the US would be horrible, here they are merely challenging but not lost causes. I thinking moving away

from depending on z visas and relying on the fickle mood of collegeon and universities is beginning to happen and I need to reflect on freelancing or working PT at language centers as an option. A private college I work at did not want to renew my contract after 4 years of work and claimed (who knows the truth but I had no issues that I knew of or was counseled about) that is was because I had worked at the school too long and that it could create a political issue. What?

For some us we have to remember what our options Were or are back in The States. Mine were not good and that was when the economy was simply bad, not a nightmare. My art degree was useless there and I did not get on at IBM when I was 20 and work until retirement.

Yuanyangren: I wonder if talked to the same school as you. Nationalities Universty? I saw the asking for an MA and sent in my stuff anyway and got offered the job with just a BA. But I did have a TESL certificate I got from doing a program at a school I worked for in BJ. I thought the 3500 for an MA was extreme. I had already resigned a contract with the school I was at for another year. The pay with this private college is good but there are some issues to be sure that changed my feelings about the place. I will certainly leave next year and may have no choice really as I was told I could stay for at least one more year after I went to the school president and explained why it was not fair how the matter was handled. But it sounds like it can all be pretty arbitrary here. The guy at Nationalities said he liked me and wants me to stay in touch as next year the school will go to Chenggong district and I guess lots of schools there anticipate having problems with foreign teachers wanting to live there or commute. If he is still intereted next year I may take him up on the deal, but I get the feeling the issue here can be fickle. Who knows later how the wind may blow.

I got some last minute mails from quite a few places really, including Normal and a few schools and my BA and ESL certificate helped, but the fact I lived in Kunming and was able to meet someone with my stuff seemed a major perk.

But the truth is I need to think of other options to schools in general. I am considering researching the private tutoring more and more and doing PT work at some language centers. I understand working PT does not require a z visa and schools cannot provide a z visa for PT sometimes anyway.

I hope I can send you a private message and trade emails and we can bat this around together. I have a Chinese wife and so a bond and connection to China. We will stay here rather than go back to the US and work in a fast food joint or as janitors, but this year has made me wake up to some issues and I need to talk to other people who have had similar problems and overcome them, or are trying to.

May I send you a PM shortly?

Bill

Why don't some of y'all organize a "Clearing-House" (or other terminology) for Tutors? I know the demand is great - - all the way from 5-year-olds on up to those planning on taking TOEFL/IELTS.

We live in BeiChen - - and my wife is constantly being asked if she will tutor or if she knows a good tutor.

With all that said - - not sure how the Clearing-House Manager can tell who is good and who is not - - because we also hear horror stories about expats taking money to tutor kids and the expat knows zilch about teaching. Seems as if some seem to think that just speaking English qualifies them to be a tutor. (Parents who speak no English don't really have a way to know if tutor is good or not other than word-of-mouth)

Anyway - - just a thought.

Cheers - - JJ

For Laotou - - Oh Well, guess that means I can afford to buy the coffee next time!!

I would like to meet other teachers and get some tips really. Like JJ said a lot of teachers tutor hung over and detached, but most I have known try their best even if they are not technically "real" teachers in the certified way. But I sense, like me, their hearts are in it but they may get frustrated by slow results or when students get restless or bored, as they tend to here a lot. I can only tap dance for long really.

I have been doing the job for 8 years now and really want to make some changes in how I do some things and I don't assume I can't learn from people younger and with time experience than me. We old dogs can learn from the young teachers with vision and optimism still in their bones.

Well, I think one of the main problems with teaching in Kunming is that the qualified teachers with lots of experience are pretty much paid and treated the same as the unqualified teachers with virtually no experience whatsoever. I have an MAT in TESOL and 23 years experience and what do I get offered per hour? 100-120 kuai! It`s bullshit!

Also, I really think that Kunming needs some kind of language teachers` organization. TALC = Teachers Association of Languages in China.

Good, no excellent, books.

How to teach English : Jeremy Harmer
Lots of practical tips, and instruction
You study a unit then there is a task. Some tasks use DVD and you learn how to critique the part of a lesson n the DVD.

This was pre-reading for my CELTA course (I had already been teaching a few years and I learned a lot.

This is also an Ebook on Taobao, but it does not have a DVD.

Learning Teaching : Jim Scrivener
Another excellent book for independent learning.

Just a few points to ponder.

While I believe everyone on this thread sincerely works hard, put in the effort, and truly cares about the students. For everyone of us that is qualified and have experience, there are probably 10 inexperienced tourists/starving students who would be more than willing to fill in just to make a quick buck and move on to the next town.

I think the pay rate is a reflection of the market dynamics, you get what you paid for. Most of these "language schools" are not really concerned about teaching English and the parents who sends them there are not either. They are only concerned with going through the motions so that they can comfort themselves knowing that "they did their part". As such, these schools are not willing to pay for quality, they just want someone cheap. Therefore, it would take some time and a lot of effort to build a reputation as a quality teacher and seek out only those students who are looking for such quality.

While 100/hour might seem low to us, to the average Chinese parent this is still a bit high. Given the availability and willingness of people to take these low paying jobs, unless you have a reputation for high quality teaching, it would be difficult to negotiate a higher compensation.

Bottom line, look at both sides of the equation. If you want higher compensation, what are you bring to the table besides being a foreigner that speaks English?

Cheers~

Interesting thread

I have just arrived in Kunming. I have no teaching experience but I have a Bachelor of Arts majoring in English Literature. I recently had an interview at Haina Language School and the suggested rate if I accepted employment was 90 yuan per hour for teaching hours and confusingly, 30 yuan per hour for compulsory 'office hours'. Office hours covers lesson preparation, which I understand is unpaid for in other positions, but it also includes additional work. Does this seem fair? I accept that with no actual teaching experience, the starting rate may be low but, well I'm not sure...

Haina, Summit, Web International are still paying 2008 wages. Everything has gone up in price in the last 3 years really fast. Food, water, electricity, rental, etc. They look for new arrivals to suck them dry. Beware!

@Tanyaod

The problem is precisely that the schools want to get more than they are willing to pay for. They are getting it, too.

While the schools may be willing to settle for just a pretty face, most of them do want and do advertise for qualified teachers.

Schools literally hound me precisely because they believe me to be qualified and experienced, yet most of them never offer more than newbie level compensation.

As for newbies themselves, the schools could always actually invest in them by training them, but that is not the game. So it seems like a mistake to blame the teachers here, even the bad ones.

Anyway, I haven't noticed too many fake teacher hobos on the 1 dui 1 circuit in Kunming.

@ Prd34 Yes the more qualified teachers deserve more. This is a biggie.

@ ET Those schools are paying 2004 wages, I believe.

@Merzai It is not really a starting rate, as you will never get a raise or a promotion, that is a big problem with this industry. I mean, I bet when you look around there, you don't see any older teachers in higher positions training new fish like you.

And some positions do pay for prep time. Either way, it should be considered in the salary negotiation, because it is work. You should know that you can bargain, no need to accept the first offer.
Office hours are a scam, they are keeping you on hand for other reasons. I don't recommend taking a job with such a requirement, but if you do, you should be getting paid just the same as for teaching hours.

If you want to teach, I think you should actually go after it, educate yourself, and get training.

In any case, I think newbies should demand higher salaries too, since this forces them into contention with more qualified teachers-which both puts pressure on newbies to improve quickly, and detracts from the downward pull on the salaries of qualified teachers.

This might sound strange at first, but remember that there is no promotional or training scheme for the newbie teacher at most schools. It is all stacked against them. They can go get certifications, but then they still have to get the experience.

I know that, regarding teaching, I learned more from experience, other teachers, and my own research/ reading, than from my certification course or from my university education.

@ All

IMO:
At schools, don't accept low salaries. If you don't deserve a good salary, you don't deserve the job.
For private teaching, newbie teachers could charge lower rates like 100 or 120 as long as they don't call themselves qualified teachers. Qualified teachers should charge 150 and up.

gokunming.com/en/classifieds/item/18439/ielts_teacher

I don't know her, but she sounds like an awesome teacher!

Educated at one of the top universities in the world, experienced, and successful. Nobody needs to mention that the IELTS is a very important test.
Why is she only making 100/120 rmb?

She's worth more than that, in my opinion.