Um...taobao?

Hi!
As I wrote before on another post about chicken breast my company, Sapore Italia, main warehouse in Kunming and shops in Lijiang, Dali and Zhongdian for 5 years, sells high quality imported food and wine.
Anyone interested in receiving our complete list please write me an email.

Also, we often organize wine tasting around Kunming and Yunnan, more than glad to let you know where and when if I have your contacts.

Thanks, Francesca (ex Box Bar)

@Francesca

In the other thread you invited us to contact you for a catalogue.
I have still received nothing.

??

I've been selling (not the cheapest) french red, white and sparkling wine in Europe for some years, and now been asked to develop in China. Is Kunming a good place to start, or have the metros/walmarts got it well covered?

How an industry insider would define, well covered, is an interesting question. You would really need to come and have look yourself. Metro is well stocked, but is technically a wholesalers (trade only) although many customers are not.
We do have Carrefour (French superstores) here in large numbers across China. They have as wide a selection of French wines as the locals wish to buy. They have Fr wine promotions at least annually in most stores.

If you are going to set up your own company, for the type of venture that services commercial/retail outlets, I would suggest you need at least half million Euros start up capital.

If you are just thinking of opening a shop, then you need much less. The private wine shops here in China saw a boom about 2 years ago. And they were selling overpriced wine. Maybe 50-200 Euro per bottle. If you are European you would have a USP.

Opening a business here is fraught with problems. Not least of which is getting the necessary licenses and permits. Some government officials will want 'rent', backhanders are endemic. You will also need a guide to help you through he process, but finding someone who won't try to fleece you is also a problem.

If you need a Chinese business partner (some licenses require it) then forget it. People here start a business for what they can take out of it, not what they can put in and invest for the future. It is how business is done here. You need to find a business model where the partner has no access to ANY assets, unless he/she owns them. Perhaps your side could be the 'Face' of the business, and the supply end (where you make your money).

Even if you have a successful business in your own right, it may not be sustainable. In Kunming several small business have had huge rent hikes, 100% annually. This has driven them out. In other cities this has been done and then the local owner carries on a new business in the same vein. You had a cafe-bar, they now have a cafe bar, using the goodwill you set up. They usually keep the decor that you paid for. The only way to protect against this to own your own property (now at least 30k Euro/sqm), and foreigners cannot own commercial property in China, as far as I am aware.

Just some thoughts.

It does seem that Walmart, Metro and Carrefour are pretty well organised on the wine front. We have a cafe/wine bar here and find that we can sell decent amounts of imported wines in the 100 kuai and under range but there is resistance over that mark. Of course there are huge sales taxes on most imported wines here but it seems a shame that few, if any, importers (other than the above mentioned) seem prepared to trade off high margins for bulk. For example, New Zealand has had a serious wine glut recently that resulted in wine prices at fabulously low levels. And not just the rubbish either. But none of these wines ended up here. The only NZ wines available here at seem to be in the 300+ range. Buzzard, you're welcome to come and see us at Slice of Heaven, 168 Hong Shan Dong Lu.

I think there may be an issue with NZ and duty/tax. The NZ dairy products also seem to be very high priced, compared to EU dairy.

Thank you both for your comments, thoughts and invitation. As a new venture in China we will look to local distributors. We act on behalf of wineries in France so payment up front (60 day L/C) is a prerequisite for us/them. We organise tastings/marketing, logistics/payments of import taxes (50% in China)etc for them. As they are small independents, we are very flexible on quantities, unlike Metro etc; In Europe we deal direct with bars and hotels now as the minimum quantity problem has now been resolved.

Can't understand why NZs are so expensive in China. Prices are highly competitive in Europe.

try 360buy.com

they have decent wine at very low prices and they do free delievery with purchases above 39kuai

huge selection but ordering may prove challenging without basic chinese

did i mention they also accept cash or POS payments at your door?

just my 2cents

"I think there may be an issue with NZ and duty/tax. The NZ dairy products also seem to be very high priced, compared to EU dairy."

Ironically NZ has a significantly LOWER tax on its wine imported into China compared to most other countries due to the free trade agreement between the two countries.