Hi Sendero! Since I didn't see a poster by the of Tanya, I assume you were responding to me.

I guess I was address two different but some what related points. The first point was that many "foreign teachers" are making wage demands without first considering their own qualifications. Foreign teachers are in quotations because I make a distinction between actual qualified teachers with either formal training or real experience and those who are really just fly-by-night operators looking for beer money as you eloquently put it. Unfortunately for the real qualified teachers, most schools in Kunming do not make the distinction, which will bring me to my second point later on.

I am looking at this issue simply from an economic and market stand point. Foreign teachers are providing a service as a product in the open market, the schools are the buyers of such product. Actually they are the middle-man but more on that later. As a consumer, when you are considering a purchase, what do you consider? Price and quality of course. There is a matter of cost-effectiveness also but I don't want to get to deeply into it. It is the same principle as why does a BMW cost 300K RMB and a locally made car, Geely only cost 30K. What happens when you can't compare the quality between competing products? Let's look at this analogy.

When you blindly tell perspective teachers to demand the "market rate" without first determining their qualifications, it is like telling the Geely dealer, "Demand 300k for your product because there are people willing to pay 300K for a car." So now people are looking at the a low quality car with a price tag of 300K and thinking to themselves, this car is crap, it's not worth 300K, at best it's 30K. Eventually these guys gets to the BMW dealership and now without looking at the car, they make an offer of 25K because they were preconditioned to believe a 300K car is only really only worth 30K. If you have all these low quality products demanding top dollar, the schools will get burned one too many times and eventually they'll start to low-ball their offer. It is the same reaction when we see a "Made in China" label. We automatically discount its quality immediately and expect a cheap price tag without objectively analyzing it because past experiences tell us that products made in China are crap and aren't worth much. By telling unqualified teachers to demand a certain amount regardless of their qualifications, we are only conditioning the market to be biased against truly qualified teachers.

Now for my second point. I was trying to paint a picture of the current state of the market here in Kunming. In my past experience, as @Dazzer pointed out, most schools don't really care about quality simply because the market, aka the parents, don't demand it (for the most part). The parents here simply wants to feel good that they are doing something to further their childrens future but can't be bothered to check out the school to see if it is acutally doing any good. They think to themselves, the kid looks happy so it but be good. Mean while all the teacher is doing is acting silly to entertain them. In a sense, foreign teachers are nothing more than glorified baby sitters. And so now the basic qaulifications to become a teacher is having a foreign face and speak better English than the Chinese interviewer.

I am obviously painting with a broad stroke. There are parents out there who actually do care about the students learning something because they have high expectations and do check up on the teachers. But then these parents also understand the issue of price vs quality and wouldn't be the ones offering to pay only 100yuan/hr.

In America, the same teacher can teach the same class in either Bridgeport, Connecticut, or Minot, North Dakota.

If said American would like, he or she may go to Kunming, Yunnan, and teach there.

In Connecticut, new teachers are paid around 39,000.00 USD per year.

In North Dakota, new teachers are paid around 24,000.00 USD per year.

In Yunnan, new teachers are paid around 14,000.00 USD per year.

You can say "WTF!" all you want, but that's the way life is.

If you are all so great, then go to Bridgeport.

And, while you are there, have fun making your 2,800.00 USD per month house payment.

(Of course, that is assuming you can put 120,000.00 USD down on the average 600,000.00 USD home, and secure a 30 year mortgage for the remaining 480,000.00 USD.)

Well put Christopher1975. Always good to get a dose of reality. Thanks!

You are welcome.

Now, let's titrate up to an effective dose.

Anyone who is considering taking a teaching position at a school or training center in China does so at their own risk, and continues to do so according to their own valuation of the reward.

Nobody is trying to rip anybody off, the position is clearly defined and the pay is set, and if you don't like it, then do not apply.

You are not obliged to participate.

End of story.

Both Tonyaod and Christopher1975 put forward well argued and highly relevant points and I personally agree wholeheartedly up to the point where a line is drawn and the end of history is triumphantly declared.

I have argued consistently on this website and beyond that these discussions entirely centre on 'teachers'. Foreign 'techers' in particular can take it or leave it as stated clearly above. I rarely, if ever, see any equally well argued posts looking at this problem from the students (victims) point of view. All too often they are victims. Their lives are blighted in this anarchic free for all by some 'schools' and 'teachers' who are nothing other than vultures and parasites.

Free market apologists will reject the idea of some form of regulation but sooner or later it will come, even to Kunming. Reform must take place since the current situation is not fit for purpose. Too many students are not being taught, or worse still, they are being taught badly and too many good students are being denied life changing opportunities.

With all respect, this must not be the end of this particular story.

You have no respect, because you fail to read and comprehend the original post.

The post states that DD Dragon has modified the offer to include a lower salary than the previous year, and that doing so is an attempt to swindle potential employees.

DD Dragon employs teachers, which limits the scope of the subject further to the teaching profession.

So, with regard to DD Dragon, the compensation they offer, as it pertains to teachers, this is certainly the end of any relevant discussion.

If you want to discuss the plight of the student, or even the struggles of the parent who is trying to raise a bilingual child and provide them with a good education on a very limited budget, or perhaps discuss the morality of the institutions and people who are making efforts to assist, then start another thread.

These subjects are not the topic of this thread.

The End. (Again)

These are clearly linked. You can declare the end of history, again and again but it will not end any day soon. Some form of regulation will solve the remuneration problem and the student problem.

I might add that I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but now it seems you may directly benefit from continuation of the current sorry, exploitative, situation.

In my opinion they are linked, so let the moderator decide. Meanwhile, passing insulting and personal remarks adds very little to your credibility.

For the record, I work 12+ hours a day and would savour a drop of boredom. You are right, it is on my agenda and I am not alone. You can like it or lump it.
Over now to the moderator.

They are all very clearly linked.
No matter what you think of market forces (personally I think they are potentially very damaging), they are a very clear factor in this case.

Competitive wages are a fact. Recently we have we seen English teachers advertising at 80rmb/h or less.
The growth of the market is a fact. This has led to more new private sector schools, increasing competition. This has also led to marketing to lower income families, who can/will not pay premium prices.

I don't know if it has started to happen in Kunming yet, but in Shanghai and other cities (mature markets) many private sector schools have gone bust.

On a more personal note.
To start a post talking about "respect", go on to tell people that they "fail to read and comprehend", and close with "The End. (Again)"; is incongruous and potentially offensive.

Hey Guys,

I am currently working for one of the DD schools, depending on your schools owner, it could be a good school to work for.
One thing to look out for is the fact that the head office are the biggest liars.
On their ads the promise a whole bunch of stuff but cant deliver.
For one, the TEFL, or TESOL course they give you, does not exist, and the course they offer online is not accredited.
Feedback is not an option, they take the ostrich option, if they can't see you, then you do not exist.

Do not trust them, and make sure you get all your facts straight.
These people are as sly as foxes.