This is a previous job post for DD Dragon. How did it go from 7000CNY to 6000CNY on their current ad. If anything it should go up! It's 2011 not 2010 or 2008. XieFei is so right about how these so-call 'schools' and/or 'training center' try to rip potential employees.

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Great Job, Great Enviornment

Looking for a native English speaker to teach English at DD Dragon English School in Kunming, Yunnan province.The school is growing up very fast, so we are looking for full time and part time teachers.

DD Dragon is located in the beautiful and most culturally diverse province in China. Since my arrival in Kunming, and during my contract the staff at this school have shown me the utmost kindness that continued to the day that I left. Every time I was sick they personally helped me at hospitals and mediated between the doctors and me. Every bill I had to pay, they paid for me and I reimbursed them.

Contract includes the following:* 7000CNY monthly salary.

* Medical / Accidental insurance.* 5,000 CNY contract completion bonus.

* Classes will have no more than 15 students.* Teach ages 3-12.

Ideal candidates for this position are as follows:

* Native English Speaker from the UK, USA, Australia, Canada or New Zealand.

* Love teaching children.

* Experience is preferred, but not necessary.

If interested please send an email to Cloud7901J@hotmail.com

call Joel 18287192985 Sean 15096633835 or JASMINE at 13888219572

No foreign English teacher should be teaching for less than 150/hour in a second tier city in China. The going rate in Kunming is very out of date-and if teachers don't demand higher, nothing will improve.

I went for an interview at this place once and had a very strange experience. Lots of awkward silences because they expected the interviewee to lead the interview. Weird vibe. Anyway, I was lucky to find a good job somewhere else

Alright, I just want to clear the air on this because the owner of this school happens to be a close friend of mine and I know personally that she does not rip off employees. I worked for this school from 2009-2010 and I would agree with flengs, at that time the interview was very unclear. (by the way flengs, I'm glad you found a good job) At the time, I took the job only because my friend introduced me to the school, and he said it was legit. I think it was a good decision, and I don't regret it at all. I left there only because I wanted a break from teaching children.

The school is legally licensed, and now the foreign manager does the interviews which helps alot with clarity. Lastly, the reason why the pay is lower is because now the school pays for your visa and accomodation. Unfortunately, whoever posted this ad was careless in mentioning that. But you are correct jonny9, the all around pay in Kunming is still low compared to other places. And Liumingke1234, I understand why you would think this, especially with so many shady schools around. So kudos to you, for being aware about this.

Liumingke1234, thanks for the shout-out. I do think that prices are depressed, and the business mentality here is partially at fault. But I live in Beijing now, and being back in Kunming for the holidays, enjoying the clean air, warm sun and beautiful clear skies, I've had a new insight into the matter.

A big part of the issue is the foreign population. Kunming is very comfortable, and provides a pretty good quality of life. As a result, many foreigners love to move here, and worry about work later.

While tons of foreigners arrive in Beijing and Shanghai every day, chasing the perceived gold mine, the ones here are slightly different. People come here because they like the place, and they then try to find an excuse (teaching, studying Chinese, starting an organic farm...) to stay here after the fact.

As a result, the schools have it easy. While experienced teachers argue that their services are worth more money, and that the cost of living has increased, the schools know that they can easily fill the position with the next sucker who walks in the door.

We can try to tell the newcomers to stick to minimum salaries or prices in negotiations, but that never works 100%.

Contrast that to other, less well-endowed cities. "You want me to live in Zhengzhou? Sorry, that's gonna cost you at least 15,000 a month..."

I was under the impression that foreigners need to have a "relevant degree" to qualify for a teacher's working visa? JJMallox says the school can arrange a visa, but the job advert doesn't mention any qualification requirements? Odd.

A lot of people keep mentioning 150/hr and how in big cities like SH and BJ the rate is much higher without addressing the other side of the issue, namely, the quality and qualifications of the teachers. Having teaching in Kunming for 7 years, I have sat on both sides of the table quite a few times.

While I agree that a good qualified teacher should receive 150 if not more, one of the most frustrating things I encounter when I interview someone is when they expect to receive X amount simply because they hold a foreign passport. Many don't have a TEFL certificate, any formal training, or any "real" teaching experience. Some of them don't even speak English as a primary language (granted, this isn't that critical if they have proficiency, but I'm just saying).

I believe @Xiefei got it right, the pool of qualified teachers in Kunming are constantly being diluted by tourist/students trying to stay as long as possible and just looking to make some easy money so that they can head to Lijiang or Kundu just one more time. It is a simple matter of supply vs demand.

The schools don't really care about quality, they just want a living, breathing body to fill up space. Unfortunately for us, in Kunming there are plenty of supply that are willing to jump on any offer in order to get some money into their pockets

Tanya,

Your facts are on the money, but it is hard to tell what you are getting at with your narrative, and it seems that you're inadvertently playing for the wrong side. I am not attacking you here, but you seem to speak as if qualified teachers would be treated differently. Well, believe it or not, qualified teachers have the same value to most schools as total imposters do. These businesses are not prepared to dish out better treatment or compensation, and they really do love their revolving door staffing strategy. It is a dealer's game and the school owners are the dealers.

No matter what the industry, dropping the wage (or letting it stagnate) hardly helps to attract higher caliber talent. Paying a living wage allows one to transparently discriminate against the unqualified, and rightfully so. The hardest hit here are the qualified teachers. That a terrible wage may or may not suit travelers just looking for beer money, is not exactly a matter of relevance to said teachers.

This is not a chicken and egg problem. Nor are the schools the victims. (Some of these schools charge students 500/hour for 1 to 1 classes).

The schools are not crappy due to being ground down by unqualified FTs. As you mentioned, they only want a white face and a pulse.

Good jobs attract talent. That talent is not in Kunming, but in Korea, Taiwan, UAE, Spain, Japan, and to a lesser extent in Beijing, Guangzhou, and Shanghai, because that is where the jobs are.

That talent would come here if serious positions were offered. Only the universities come anywhere close to offering anything, and when they do, the pay is quite low (though I still think it is a good gig.) The jobs aren't here and it is not the the fault of the teachers, the schools and other factors (local/provincial economy) are the generative side of this dialectic.

There is nothing wrong with teachers having higher standards.

ps. 150 is low now

@ Sendero

Firstly, I agree with the fact that pay in Kunming is very low. However, Tonyaod is correct. This is not a defence of low pay or the defence of the schools either.

There is a principle in economics called competitive wages. As and employer, as long as you can fill vacancies you are happy. If one person is willing to do the job for less, you employ them. Ideally you want someone of the same quality who is cheaper, but this is the weak point. Some expats don't care about the pay, as much as the visa, this is the problem pointed out by Sendero. As a result you get the 'white face with a pulse' as the lowest common denominator.

As a service provider quality is an issue. If your business strategy has a 'quality focus' quality is important. If your business has a 'cost focus' the cost is more important. Most businesses in China are cost focussed.

Directors of Studies will want to employ the most experienced people they can get for the money. The money is fixed by the owner, the only variable is the quality of the applicants.

There are more schools than in the past. Competition is tougher. The rich kids market is well established, new business has to be won from less well off families. These less well of families cannot pay as much, and are mostly not sensitive to quality, partly because the kids are not going to a good local school.

Parents are also cost focussed. If there are several English schools they can use, and one is cheaper than the others, and does not appear significantly lower quality, they will choose the cheaper. Schools are aware of this and want to keep prices down, as such they reduce costs. Many of us teachers forget that the main aim of any business it make money, not to educate. These 'schools' are not in the public sector.

I think that pay will continue to stay low, until nobody wants to teach here. Or quality gets so low that parents no longer bother with private English lessons. At that stage teaching will no longer be seen as a desirable job. This is a negative vicious circle, one that we have seen in the public sector in Europe and the USA. Perhaps history is repeating itself.

@ Sendero

Firstly, I agree with the fact that pay in Kunming is very low. However, Tonyaod is correct. This is not a defence of low pay or the defence of the schools either.

There is a principle in economics called competitive wages. As and employer, as long as you can fill vacancies you are happy. If one person is willing to do the job for less, you employ them. Ideally you want someone of the same quality who is cheaper, but this is the weak point. Some expats don't care about the pay, as much as the visa, this is the problem pointed out by Sendero. As a result you get the 'white face with a pulse' as the lowest common denominator.

As a service provider quality is an issue. If your business strategy has a 'quality focus' quality is important. If your business has a 'cost focus' the cost is more important. Most businesses in China are cost focussed.

Directors of Studies will want to employ the most experienced people they can get for the money. The money is fixed by the owner, the only variable is the quality of the applicants.

There are more schools than in the past. Competition is tougher. The rich kids market is well established, new business has to be won from less well off families. These less well of families cannot pay as much, and are mostly not sensitive to quality, partly because the kids are not going to a good local school.

Parents are also cost focussed. If there are several English schools they can use, and one is cheaper than the others, and does not appear significantly lower quality, they will choose the cheaper. Schools are aware of this and want to keep prices down, as such they reduce costs. Many of us teachers forget that the main aim of any business it make money, not to educate. These 'schools' are not in the public sector.

I think that pay will continue to stay low, until nobody wants to teach here. Or quality gets so low that parents no longer bother with private English lessons. At that stage teaching will no longer be seen as a desirable job. This is a negative vicious circle, one that we have seen in the public sector in Europe and the USA. Perhaps history is repeating itself.