SHLAB,

I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH MOST OF THESE NICE PEOPLE HERE.
5000 is not enough. (no disrespect intended)

If you don't want to have any real hobbies, projects, or educational endeavors of your own, any comforts of home, and you are OK to dip into you past savings to fly (home or elsewhere), then perhaps its fine.

But international airfare is going to cost you from 6,000-20,000 rmb per year, depending on where you live and how many times you go out.

Also, chances are you are going to want travel a bit while in China, which might not be super pricey but, at least combined with (for me)

going on a few dates,

having a drink once a week,

a multivitamin and fish oil from taobao,

being able to buy a decent pair of shoes once a year,
buying an actually good paperback (written in English) every few months or so,

birthday and other gifts for friends/family, some emergency money put away in case you get sick or need to go to a dentist or do a visa run in hong kong- etc etc

I do cook sometimes, but i don't like thinking that if i didn't eat at home every day, i would not be able to make my budget.

I think people say 5000 is ok because

1 it used to be and
2 they have resigned themselves to dipping into their savings account when necessary, and expect to save not 1 penny while in China.

Local people live on less than 5,000, but there are several complex reasons why life is not only cheaper for them than for you, but also that some of your needs and lifestyle expectations are different.

That said, Teacher Ashley And Hubby,

Tell me your secrets!
Half?
i know they pay for your visas and apartment but...
wow!
Your income is about to go up as I hire you as my financial coach.

I don't think it's that hard to do. We do a family of 3 on 5000 RMB/month. Our life is not lacking in any way . 5000 RMB covers our gym passes(2 people) and classes(3 people/4 days a week) that we take. We eat out 4-5 times/week,sometimes more. Not noodles or rice but chicken,beef,pizza,etc. The food we eat at home is excellent,but definitely local in flavorand pretty healthy. We shop primarily in the markets not Metro or Carrefour. We take our vitamins and we take the bus. Granted, I have not included flights out of the country but most of your jobs pay for this anyway,nor have I included travel and vacations. We own our house, so we have no rent,but housing,too is included in many of your contracts.Utilities and Internet are ours. Like I said, I don't think it's that hard to do.It's really just a matter of lifestyle and needs/wants.

With all due respect to Johnny9, how much is enough is in the eye of the beholder and is dependent on the lifestyle in which you wish to have in China. I would assume that for most expats, they are not coming here looking for better job opportunities and maybe, just maybe, have children one day and watching them swear the oath of allegiance and becoming a Chinese citizen someday, nor are they looking to work slavishly to support their family AND send money back home to their parents. And so, to expect to come to China and make back all your travel expenses and to be able to take a bit back home is a little unrealistic.

I think at issue is how to stretch out the money you've brought with you to make it last as long as possible by supplementing it with some income, which by the way, is illegal to do on a traveler's visa, but that's another thread for another time. As such, 5000 is more than enough to cover your monthly living expenses. If you are living a typical frugal Chinese lifestyle, that is, meagerly by Western standards, then 2000 is enough to cover the very basics of food, water, and shelter some what comfortably. IF, you are like Jonny9 and wish to recreate the lifestyle you had back home than of course 5000 wouldn't be enough.

re: Damiao and shangrilabelly

I think its about specifics. Families tend to have their own dynamic and use of energy which is very different than a single person.

A single person spends much more money per head for sure. A single person also has less limits on their activity, which also ends up meaning more money spent.

My opinion is based on a busy single person, kind of speaking -but not fluent in -Chinese,who wants to be out and about much of the time.

5000 should be more than enough for food and rent for anybody, no matter how big they are or how healthy they eat. But there are many more expenses than those 2 things.

I have been in China for a long time and really never met any single laowai that i know of living in a second tier city on just 5,000, and I'm a pretty trashy guy, if i may say so. I wouldn't work here for less than 9,000, and I think 12,000 is better. If I was working right now, my budget would be 7,000 -with 2000 added for travel, savings, medical etc. thus 9,000. I dont live that lavish-i haven't bought a pair of pants in six months and i take a taxi about once per month. In the time I have been here I have seen the price of food basically double.

In you case shangrilabelly, i hope you at least do some haggling to address things like airfare, housing etc. People general expect Chinese experts at anything to make at least 80 and often 100 yuan per hour for private lessons. When dealing with foreigners that goes up. English teachers should be making closer to 150/hr. So do some math.

You also need to keep in mind that as an employee of a Chinese company you may be expected not to think in terms of hours worked-its possible that you're simply are obliged to do anything they want as much as they want -there often is no overtime-its considered your obligation.

Companies also usually lowball you quite a lot on the first offer. Ask for much more.

I think many people come to china to work less hours while engaging an interesting environment/culture/skill set/whatever (check out Teacher Ashley above). If you agree, ask yourself how things are measuring up. good luck.

Was there an interesting phrase in the above comment by 'jonny9', "If I was working right now, my budget would be 7,000 -with 2000 added for travel, savings, medical etc. thus 9,000." I'm sure that we eagerly await your next employment because, generally, we don't all work for international corporations.

This is an informative discussion and part of what I think makes it valuable is that it takes into account Kunming's inflation over the last couple years being higher than the national average. I have felt the increase most in rent and groceries. Doesn't seem like salaries have kept up.

TIGER :I'm sure that we eagerly await your next employment because, generally, we don't all work for international corporations.

Me: I have no idea what this means. Is it that I shouldn't be talking about myself? Or do you think I typically work for an international corporation? And why would you be awaiting my next employment? And if you were being sarcastic about that part, then the corporations reference becomes...OK I just can't make heads or tails of it.

So far, the relatively few presumptive slanders in this thread have been easy to decipher, can you please continue on on that spirit of clarity? Cheers.

Hey teacherashley....Do you mean that you and your husband each teach 8 classes a week or 8 classes b/w the two of you? Also, how long is each "class"? (I'm trying to figure out your hourly rate.)

Thanks for the info.

Why not ask the question directly instead of trying to figure out somebody else business,but since you're "trying" to figure it out,let's do some basic math...If Teacher_Ashley and her husband each taught 8 1 hour classes/wk at 100 RMB/hr, they would bring in 6400 RMB/mo between the 2 of them.With the going rate of English teachers at 100-150 RMB/hr, a person teaching 20 hours a week would have a weekly salary of 2000-3000 RMB. That works out to 8000-12000/month.Easily more than enough for one person (or even a family) to live comfortably, especially if you have some school or company footing the bill for your apartment, insurance, airfare,etc.Even if you freelance teaching English (illegally) with no benefits, you would still be living comfortably and be working a pretty short work week.