to come to a developing nation, and pay the locals what you would pay in your home nation, is just stupid. It's not exploitation to pay people according to what the local going rate it. Do you accuse the Chinese of exploiting their own people when they pay local rates.

If you're running a business and the locals say, "well in beijing they get this much per hour." well, this isn't beijing.

Why don't you go ahead and apply that to your apartment? I'm sure in New York City, or LA, or Seoul these houses we live in would go for 800 USD or more.

Or any local product for that matter. I can afford to pay western prices for a bottle of coke. Am I exploiting the chinese because I live according to the local economy?

Considering the HUGE ecconomic disparity between the few rich and many poor in China, it could be said (as Tiger did) that the poor are being utilized.

I detect, between the lines of some posts, a sense of concern that ex-pats don't worry about paying too little, but too much - and having other ex-pat friends refer to them as 'stupid'.

Is it fair to ask, 'How many of you hire housekeepers in the States?' And, by the way, no one has ever said that Chinese housekeepers should be paid at US rates.

How much does an ex-pat couple need for a comfortable living each month, in Kunming - not including a housekeeper? Let's start at 3,000 yuan.

yeah, it is hard to ignore the HUGE economic and Severe POLITICAL disparity, the lack of REAL indepedent organised labor union reflects the political reality. i am not in particular a fan of union back home but in china, the different circumstances changes me somehow.

i am not sure the housekeepers' pay rate is "market driven" at all, if it is, then paying the "market rate" is sufficiently FAIR, i think.

The average college grad starting their first job (here in Kunming) makes between 2000 and 3000 kuai a month. We have a helper who works half time (20 hours a week) for 1000 kuai a month. Most chinese families would considerate unconscionable that we pay her a salary that is comparable with those who are so much higher in status (I have had this conversation many times over with neighbors, etc.), but we would consider it unconscionable not to give her a living wage, and with housing prices going up, up, up I think it is very important to keep the well-being of your helper and their family in mind. My understanding is that the going base-rate for helpers working for foreign families is 10 yuan an hour. I think this is a good place to start, and from there you can give a raise of 1-2 yuan per hour every 6 months to a year that she works for you. This is higher than the rate working for Chinese families, who typically only provide 6-8 yuan an hour but often also provide meals and/or housing.

One other thought—does this person have any other work? if not, could you possibly refer them to other foreigners who could hire them? I think you WOULD need to pay them more if they are only coming to your house a couple of hours a week. Ideally, you could set something up where your helper would have at least half-time work (20 hours a week) between yours and some other households. Perhaps she could do some cooking, or shopping at the market for you or some other tasks?

You've hit the nail on the head. 'Conscious', that's the word I was looking for - some have it, some don't.

Adj. 1. unconscionable - lacking a conscience; "a conscienceless villain"; "brash, unprincipled, and conscienceless"; "an unconscionable liar"
conscienceless
unconscientious - not conscientious;

2. unconscionable - greatly exceeding bounds of reason or moderation; "exorbitant rent"; "extortionate prices"; "spends an outrageous amount on entertainment"; "usurious interest rate"; "unconscionable spending"
exorbitant, extortionate, usurious, outrageous, steep
immoderate - beyond reasonable limits; "immoderate laughter"; "immoderate spending"

if you can read and type you are 'conscious' (or a robot/computer).

Mmm, a plagiarist ... must have a degree!

hahaha... indeed. just for you:

Noun. 1. plagiarist - someone who uses another person's words or ideas as if they were his own.
literary pirate, pirate, plagiariser/plagiarizer, stealer, thief - a criminal who takes property belonging to someone else with the intention of keeping it or selling it.

i'd like to make it clear that the above words (and those in my previous post) were not my own and offer my sincere apologies to anyone who may have been led to believe otherwise. i assure you that this was completely unintentional.