Okay, you win Dazzer.

Let it be known I've never once downvoted anyone on this site, nor would I ever, no matter how much I may disagree with a poster. No opinions in discourse ought to be suppressed/hidden.

Hey folks, I know this thread has strayed a bit off topic, so I apologise if what I'm posting is, by now, somewhat irrelevant (or already known by all), but I found these excellent blog posts providing a (fairly) detailed legal analysis (inc. historical and current legislation)

of property ownership and rights in China. All in English. Very well written and a fascinating read. May answer some questions and/or confirm what you already knew.

www.chinalawblog.com/[...]

blogs.loc.gov/[...]

...and the law itself:

www.lehmanlaw.com/[...]

Happy reading :)

Law? Of course! Rule of law? Ask the OP.

@Stratocaster

Exactly. But in our case, we accepted the verdict, forgiven those who wronged us, moved on by finding other avenues in the Mainland to legally earn back previous losses... and for that reason, try my upmost not to rattle the cage.

Well dolphin, apparently I've caught the schoolyard cooties, it's contagious so keep a safe distance...

it's the price to pay for assisting the OP. To keep this thread alive and in high visibility. Hoping the central government in Beijing will eventually take notice - the lack of accountability & transparency on the part of Yunnan's Director of Foreign Affairs, Mr. Li Jiming (李极明), and those at the prefecture-level (mayor hotline #12345), in their mishandling of contract developers and their affiliates.

Whether the provincial officials buckle under the pressure remains to be seen.

I believe this was the intent of Professor John Israel.

I'll take the bait even though it's obvious someone is trolling.

For all practical purposes, can you really claim to own something if the government can take it away from you for any reason at anytime?

Legalities aside, what @bilingualexpat had was an illusion of ownership. True ownership is to have 100% control over said object to do as one pleases and having the full force of the government to enforce that ownership. When it is the government itself that does not recognize your ownership, you own nothing.

China being what it is, it is common knowledge and accepted by all Chinese that there are no private ownership of land, only the rights to use. Even if you had the deed signed by Mao himself giving you ownership of the land, no one will recognized your ownership least of all the CCP.

I've heard too many times from my Chinese friends and wife's family that we are lucky because we can own our own land "in America". I would ask them what that means and they would always reply it means we can keep it forever and pass it from one generation to another, unlike in China where the government can take it at anytime.

Yes, I own the land until I decide not to pay property taxes and the government confiscate the land. I own it until I decide to stop maintaining the house and government sell it to someone who will. I own it until I decide I don't like the neighborhood and realize I can't take the land with me.

While on the subject of ownership, if anyone comes across any progeny of the slaves that my forefather owned, tell them I own them according to 19th century Alabama laws

I.e.: Absolute private/group ownership is only a concept; doesn't exist in the real world, where what 'ownership' means is always a matter of some compromise between common agreement concerning use rights, on the one hand, and concentrated power on the other. Nice when the compromise is accurately and clearly specified in law, and the law is enforced, though - which seems not to be what happened in John Israel's case.

Then we can decide what to do about, e.g., 19th century Alabama laws, or any laws about ownership.