@geezer
Excellent summary - thank you.

Seems the ideal situation is to turn over your property regularly - to avoid the risk of condemnation and the expiration of that land lease-hold.

This also theoretically creates a somewhat consistent and arguably sustainable long-term real estate development market - with the constant churn of old and new homes and businesses.

If I could respond with GIF smileys...

One eye rolling for JanJal, a million rolling in their graves for Geezer.

I wonder if that comment is ex post facto

Calling bullshit on owning land or property near Tiananmen Square. I know the area very well and have done since the mid 90s and my time at university in Beijing. No way on this earth could you own land near the square. 1) There is no "land" to own. Every square foot was filled with Hutongs. 2) If you're referring to a hutong itself then up until the mid 00's Hutongs could not be rented by foreigners, let alone be bought by one. The other aspect is that Hutongs were never for sale, they were owned by the government since the 50s and the families were allowed to pass the buildings from one generation until the next until mid 00s when they introduced legislation about this to cater to the distruction of the Hutongs on the south side of Tiananmen Square. If you're going to say, yes but it wasn't a hutong or on the south side of Tiananmen then where was it? North of Tiananmen is the forbidden city and there's no housing around there. The East side was all governmebt buildings Renmin Gong and a middle school, behind that was all owned by the Post Office past that it was a military barracks, the west side was the old train station, the museum and the start of the embassy district and then Beijing Hotel and Wan Fujing. There was no demolition out that way and it's exactly the same there now as in the mid 90s. It could only ever have been the south side, now even this is commercial.

Either youre bullshitting or you have a very liberal take on what constitutes as "near Tiananmen Square". Owning a house in Beijing is not out the question, but owning one near Tiananmen Square was impossible.

This isn't house demolition one-upsmanship.

Given Beijings size 10 Km from Tiananmen Square is still nearby, basically next to it ;-)

@laodianpiao Sorry to hear of your loss. I hope that somehow it will eventually be resolved in your favor. It always sounds strange to me when people talk of law and rights here in China. Where are the checks and balances? The government will do whatever they want. What happened to all those Chinese people

who lost their homes when the 3 Gorges' Dam was built? My understanding is that governmental confiscation of property w/o compensation is not uncommon here in China. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that - I certainly hope I'm wrong.

@michael2015's idea of frequent turnover sounds wise to me. "Owning" new property in LiJiang, I can only hope it stays in my family for the next 60 years or so, but it's a gamble.

@Stratocaster: "My understanding is that governmental confiscation of property w/o compensation is not uncommon here in China."

Yes, but from what I hear there are also those who get compensated relatively well.

For example we rent apartment owned by a family who got several new apartments as compensations when their "farmer's house" was torn down next to Panlong river.

Others, somewhere, get slim to none. Often the argument from officials' side is that their dwellings were built without permits to begin with.

What is lacking is consistency, and what seems to be in abundance is use of thugs and scare tactics.

That is (and too early to say "was") the rule of man.

I would draw analogy from wild west in America, and conflicts between farmers, cattlers and industrial development that is often depicted in westerns.

Absolute ownership of land, that is not the practise in China today, did not help there.

@napolean
Actually - there ARE properties near TianAnMen and the imperial palace - there was a small residential area (stand alone villas) along the South Lake (NanHai) - waaaaay back around 2003-ish. Way expensive and became way complicated (allegedly military generals live in the area now).

But...yeah...out of reach financially for most normal people.

There are also the hutong neighborhoods within a few km (with no parking, cuz you can't get a car down the narrow alleyways), which are way cool - but come with crap plumbing, water pressure, and wastewater - but tons of stuff to explore.

As I vaguely recall - the WangFuJing shopping area is adjacent to the TianAnMen square - in back are service apts etc for expats fluxing in n out.

There's also a "complicated" Russian section of town...which I tended to steer clear of...just a bad feeling.

Correct?

Yes Micheal there are residencial areas to the north of Wan Fu Jing but even in the 90s that was a heavily built up area of tower blocks, or at least those 7/8 floor apartment complexes. Not sure about the Russian Areas.

I was trying to think up where something that could be considered "land" or at least a first floor residence could be, and that when I was there, was already none existent. Most of the building in that area was done in the 50s and 60s and nothing in the immediate vicinity was added recently until before the Olympics.

everybody else shut up, im right and will shout louder and longer than the rest of you, i will have the last word