hi gokunming,

been in China a while and kunming for relatively short time. I got a job working with uni students prepping to join joint degrees with overseas colleges. But I noticed a few things and wondering whether my experience here is unusual.

First, most of the students will never qualify in English in time since their starting point is way too low.

Next, they are paying fees several times that of their counterparts but getting nothing extra until they qualify in English,, which the overwhelming majority will never do.Much worse they're encouraged to pay even more fees to awful private language schools.

Third, the uni here and the overseas people seem to recognise all this but seem unconcerned with the situation. Managers on both side seem totally out of their depth.

I feel bad for the students since they will get it from their families when their ‘failure’ materialises. Is this common? What’re feelings - immoral, fraud?

This is what we call "The Gravy Train". Language training centers here in China, and for most of Asia, is like crack cocaine, they want it to be addictive enough to hook them in but given them enough hope to stay alive so that they can keep coming back to hand you their money. Can't have repeat customers if they actually get accepted.

You're not talking about the program over at YNU, by any chance, are you?

Thanks Trumspster. Recognise your sentiments about the language schools but they're just cashing in as i'd expect but they're an (expensive) side issue.

I really want to find out if there are any good, worthwhile international cooperations that produce good outcomes, or are they all about second rate western colleges

setting up vanity projects.

If they're all like I've experienced, very few kids will ever benefit and the fees are huge!

Not at ynu.

I am a MTI student at YNU. Let me share with you a true story from one of my undergraduate classmates.

Since this story concerns his interests, I shall call him Jack. Jack started his college as a Japanese major student. A year later he switched his major to English after failures in Japanese examinations. Then he spent most of his time on DOTA, parties, etc. and barely made it through all the courses and got credits required for graduation. After graduation he joined a language training center and was responsible for enrolling students. I originally thought that his routine work was mainly administrative, but he told me that he actually taught students on CET 4! After two years working in that center, he left with other two colleages and started up a new company doing the same thing. Now he is one of the few shareholders of the company and plans to buy an apartment near YNU Chenggong campus (you can imagine how much he has earned throughout these years). His company has dozens of "teachers" and hundreds of students. The bussiness is booming...Seems so surreal, isn't it?

The programs not connected to language centers in the private sector, are actually preparing students for overseas study.

The biggest problem is over ambitious parents with money to throw at their pet project

The families can get something for their money in specific circumstances. Generally, I emphasis 'generally' since there are many different set-ups, it's a backdoor for parents to get the students into university since gaokao scores may be too low for direct entry. In this case, neither the parents or students are too fussed about ever going abroad. Motivation is minimal or doesn't exist at all for these 'overseas' students for reasons mentioned by Tiger (above). In the worst cases, students can meet their visiting foreign lecturers and not have a clue about their chosen degree or even know exactly what it is. If you care about the students you could motivate them into considering their degree as possibly something worthwhile, after all, they've got to get a job sometime. They can work well for some and there can be some good outcomes, but you alone might be the only driving force for that to happen. The overseas universities get what they deserve since their motivation is often pure greed, or they are desperate for overseas income to simply survive.

I understand your concerns. There used to be a similar program at YNU in which students were to prepare their language in the first two years for the overseas study at a University in Canada (sorry I forget its name). I asked students in the program about whether their parents were satisfied or not with the quality of education, and most of them told me that their parents did not care, as long as they got the chance to go abroad. The program I mentioned is gone, but I think the problems remains pretty much the same. Very few parents know what they want for their kids in terms of overseas study, however ambitious they are. For such programs, sincere and constant communication with parents will definitely help students a lot but I guess there is no such mechanism since it might hurt the prospect of the program...

By the way, what nnoble said is totally true in the program I mentioned, and perhaps that is why it is eventually dead

If people want to go abroad, English is not always the most important aspect. Learning English is not the highest motivator in all circumstances and shouldn't even have to be. No matter what course is chosen, its still up to the individual student how well they learn anyway.

My head is reeling. So, the Chinese uinversities know and accept few students they enrol will ever be successful, not in English, not in their overseas degree and they may just get something (diploma?) after 4 years. And everyone gets this except me. Now I feel the victim and I have to accept Vicar's premise that they can sit in my class and not give a shit.

They can't study abroad (at least in a good college) without a reasonably high level of English but then if what nnoble says is true, most are just sitting out 2 years and I have to put up with it.