So does this mean I can finally get my tuition refunded? I never was able to attend a single class, but they forced me to pay tuition in August threatening to cancel my student visa. The management at the time said they would not repay it when I switched schools.

I've been studying at the DongFang West Campus from the day it opened earlier this year, and again when it reopened a few weeks ago. My experience has been entirely positive, and I can't speak highly enough of the staff. Both teaching and admin staff are friendly and flexible and really will bend over backwards to help you. The building is situated in a pleasant little xiaoqu, and the atmosphere is quiet and relaxed.

I think the humble and sincere attitude of the new manager expressed above sums it up perfectly.

My wife has studied one-on-one with Julie Zhao for four years at the main campus, and now we're doing two-on-one at the western campus (now under Julie's management).

She's an excellent teacher, very patient, willing to tailor class time to what you want. Once we're gone, she won't be teaching on the western campus, as she'll have her hands full with administration, but we have seen her use the same flexibility in setting up the new campus to fit students' needs. Right now there are only a handful of students, as they reopened in the middle of the semester, but we and our friends really like it there. Nifty facility (ping pong table on the fourth floor!), good location (near ChunYuan XiaoQu), and I know Julie wants to make sure people get set up with teachers and classes they are satisfied with.

Our personal experience with KCEL and what we've heard from others has been very positive. About the only complaint we've heard is that some individual teachers don't "get" teaching westerners and are not as helpful. But, as has been mentioned, KCEL is extremely flexible with arranging/switching classes, working around our travel plans, getting visas done, etc. The folks in the office have always taken good care of us.

Well, they still refuse to give me a refund. They promised I could take the classes I wanted in July. But come August they wouldn't let me attend the classes I wanted. They forced me to pay tuition saying the police would send me home otherwise. Never arranged classes. Refused to refund my tuition when I changed schools after not having a single class. Only stating that the director responsible has been fired for it. Is this even legal?

To clarify the facts about the American student ---- Ouyang published his essays at Gokunming web-site from October 2009 to December 28, 2009. Concerning the dispute of his tuition with the western campus of KCEL.

Hi Guys,Happy New Year,

Ouyang asked above if the situation he described was "even legal". Please allow me to explain in more detail what happened (he did not share the entire story) and try to respond to his question about legality as well.

I'm Julie Zhao, the new headmaster of the western campus of Kunming College of Eastern Language and Culture (Kunming Dongfang Yuyan Xuexiao). I was transferred to this western campus and began supervising here in November of 2009. I have worked at KCEL for 7 years.

The western campus opened on February 1, 2009. But, it was closed from August 2009 to October 2009 due to management problems of the former headmaster. This caused many inconveniences to the students who had already registered at the western campus. Each student at the western campus was informed at that time that they could have class at the main school beginning in September 2009.

There is an American student named Ouyang who had also registered at the western campus in July, and the former manager had prepared his visa for him. He received his study visa with an expiration date of March 31st, 2010. Unfortunately, he couldn't attend classes at the western campus as the campus closed. So, he chose to find another school to study Chinese, rather than attend at the main campus.

According to the foreign affair management rules, foreign students studying in China, when they transfer to another school, should inform the former school and ask the former school to prepare a transfer study certificate, so that the current school can change the study visa for the student immediately. The former school's visa would then be cancelled automatically.

Ouyang did part of this; he asked our school to prepare this certificate for him, and the manager did this for him quickly and efficiently. Ouyang didn't ask them to refund the tuition fee at that time. He did not come back to our school to ask for a refund after he applied at his new school, and, furthermore, he continued living on our visa.

(Later, on December 29, 2009, he and I met at the main school. At that time, he told us why he didn't ask us to refund the tuition fee. He was afraid the school would cancel his visa immediately. So, he wanted to get the transfer study certificate first, then think about getting the tuition fee later. This shows he understood that his continuing use of the visa was directly related to his having paid our school. What he didn't understand was that the visa office gives you a new visa through your new school when the application is made – your old visa simply automatically expires; your old school does not cancel your visa.)

From October 2009 to December 28, 2009, Ouyang wrote many essays here on Gokunming, criticizing the western campus and asking us to refund the tuition fee that he paid in July. During this time, he did not tell us about his dissatisfaction, nor did he ask us directly for a refund after he transferred – instead he posted here. In his posts, he claimed the prior headmaster of the western campus threatened him when he asked about a refund (before he had requested the transfer study certificate) and said he would call the police to send him back to his country.

In November 2009, we saw the essays on Gokunming, and we contacted him at once by email, and explained to him the foreign affair rules of China. We also tried to find a compromise – we suggested that he could attend classes at our school for free next semester, any class he would like, at any of our campuses. He did not want to do this, and asked us at that time for a refund. He also said that he will report this issue to the revelant departments if we do not refund his tuition.

On December 28, 2009, I invited him to meet with me at the western campus. He told me that nobody had informed him that he could attend classes at the main campus when the semester had first begun, so he had been forced to transfer to another school, so our school must take responsibility for this.

However, when I asked him to show his visa to me, I found that he was still using the visa that our school had granted him. When I explained this to the principal at our main campus, the main school's decision was that we cannot refund the money, because he was living on our visa. Our school felt, how can one ask for the money back, when you are still using the visa? Ouyang was not satisfied with this result. So, I told him, if you are not satisfied with this result, and if you decide to report to the police or court (as he had said he would), I am willing to have this handled by the law. I explained that I would be glad to work with him, if he decided he wanted to handle it that way, and that we could go to the police station together to file the report. He said he needed to think about it, and told me he would give me an answer the next day.

On December 29, 2009, he called to me to say that he wanted to meet with the principal of main school. So, we met in the main school that very afternoon. He insisted that he hadn't been told he could attend classes at the main campus. So, we called to the former manager immediately.

The former manager said they had informed him about attending at the main campus at the beginning of the semester, and that, furthermore, the student had not even asked for a refund, contrary to what the student was telling us.

What is most surprising in all of this is, the school which accepted Ouyang, and at which he is currently studying Chinese, had not changed Ouyang's student visa when they received the transfer certificate from our school. This is in violation of the provisions of the foreign affair rules of China.

This means that Ouyang used the visa from our school to study at another school the entire semester. So, the KCEL cannot refund his tuition fee. How can we? We provided the visa, and he used it.

From the above story, I hope all the foreign student who study in China can be aware of these rules. If you transfer to another school to study, your visa (applied for through the original school) will be cancelled automatically when the new school changes your visa record; this is not a threat (as this student termed it). This is simply the law.

And please make sure your new school changes your visa when they receive your transfer study certificate!

I hope Ouyang will have a new start in the New Year and that he will enjoy his studies at his new school! And I also hope that all foreign students enjoy their life and studies in Kunming!
Julie Zhao

January 14, 2010

Ouyang, I think it's all about the visa. Visa laws stipulate you cannot live on one school's visa while studying at another school. It seems your new school did not carry out their responsibility of explaining the law and appropriately handling your visa. I don't know why they asked you to get proof of transfer but then didn't follow through by giving you a new visa. It's their responsibility to know what visa you are on and how you are studying at their school.

Since you used KCEL's visa for an entire semester, I think you're left with no choice. If I understand correctly, since you lived on the visa, you end up having to pay for the semester. The money is related to the visa as much as it is to your participating in classes, simply because of the strictness of the visa laws. If I'm right, to do otherwise is illegal.

Ok, the short version of the entire story.

I came to Kunming in July, and registered for classes at their west campus. Come August a week before classes start I go to get my schedule, and Loris (the director at that time) said I couldn't take the classes I wanted. I asked for one week to find another school and he refused. I explicitly asked in both English and Chinese, and both times he stated that if I didn't pay tuition he would tell the police to send me home. There was no misunderstanding there, the former director was bad. He said he would contact me later when there were more students and classes would begin. This is where all the confusion starts because I was never informed the west campus closed. I only found out about that later when it was announced they were reopening.

They did not inform me that I could take classes at the main campus. In fact, when I met with the director of the main campus I asked why they didn't contact me. He said they didn't have my phone number or address.

Later in the meeting I provided the phone number for a previous teacher at the west campus. As they could no longer get a hold of the previous director there. When they called she said she sent me a text message to my mobile phone. Which obviously I never received or noticed, or whatever. But if the school is so big that I was on their student visa, then why didn't they find me when I didn't attend any classes?

I also asked the now former teacher of the west campus for a refund when I changed schools and she said no. The current director of the west campus told me they never refund tuition for any reason. Later however, the director of the main campus say that if I had asked him directly for a refund when I changed schools he would have.

I could understand not giving a refund for tuition if I purposely never went to class, but they never scheduled my classes to begin with. At the time I didn't push for a refund because I was under the impression they could force me to go home. So it was fight for a refund in tuition, but risk having to deal with the cost and hassle of leaving the country.

In the end I wonder if the main campus even cares about the quality of their so-called "branch schools." As apparently they think it's OK for a student to pay tuition and never go to class.

I'm currently having my student visa changed. As the director of the main campus said they they "could cause trouble" if I went to the proper authorities to try and get a refund.

Ouyang,nihao,
I'm Julie Zhao---The current director of westerncampus

I only want to say a word to you that is -----You must take the responsbility for your words!!!

Julie Zhao,nihao,
I'm justin---The ancient student of westerncampus and maincampus

I only want to say a word to you that is -----Shame on you and on your school. why do you think people are taking you to the court ? why can we read more and more comments from people had to deal with you and they are really unhappy with your behavior. i think you are not honest and you are giving bad services to foreign students. you just want their money and you don't care about anything else !!

can you please explain us why you have to go to the court ? what did you so bad (illegal) so that you have to explain yourself in front of the justice ?

we would all be very interested to know more about

waiting for your reply !!!!
justin

Hello,

I have no relations with the both sides but i have my word here,I think the school have to be more open minded and consider the case of foreign students who came from far away to study Chinese .for a reason or other the Campus had shut down"western" Students found them selves in the middle of nowhere so they tried to find other places or even sloutions.It might take them some mistakes in this way but for sure they do not mean it .I think The western campus or whatever can give a free semster to the student if they insist to not refund him back .This is just my opinion it might be right or wrong .