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New Requirements for Foreign Expert Certificate

zhudan (204 posts) • 0

I think it is an myth that Chinese teachers make so much less and work so much more than their foreign counter parts. My wife is a Chinese teacher at a public university (I will not name it) and it is almost unheard of for Chinese teachers to work 16 or 18 hours a week. They often put in classroom hours of about 8 to 10 hours a week. They also can get bonuses (depending on what type of contract they have I suppose) that can amount to 30,000 rmb a year. Their base pay does not change and sometimes she and her friends may have only 4 hours a week of classroom time. They still have to do more meetings and such of course, but that is not all the time. And I knew a Phd chap who was hired on the assumption he would make the 7000 range but was given the same 4000 the BAs and even MAs received. He fought and finally they consented and gave him an extra 200 rmb a month. I also would not get hopes up that current teachers will be getting paid more as policies get tighter. There is zero reason to believe that. I also know from my wife and her colleagues that plenty of Chinese teachers here have fake degrees. Even her department leaders/boss had a fake degree and used to boast about how much smarter she is than than everyone else since she got a fake degree and yet is the boss of all the people who actually graduated. Luckily this lady is at another campus now. And she says at least three of her other colleagues are known to have fake degrees but it is not an issue with the school due to how bribes and favors are carried out. I just feel a lot of it is xenophobia. The days when foreigners were regarded as "Pandas" in China seem to be coming to a close.

nnoble (889 posts) • 0

A chance meeting this morning has made me more convinced that this is a genuine nationwide policy. The person I met not only knew of the policy but was actively assisting foreign members of an educational NGO to process the required documents. I've asked this individual to find out and tell me about the actual process involved. There will be winners and losers but overwhelmingly there will far more winners and these will be Chinese students.

It must be obvious to anyone whose been here long enough that the hiring of foreigners in the education sector has been too lax. The requirement for criminal record checks was a necessary first step. This new policy appears to simply demand that a foreign job applicant proves that the qualifications they claim to have are genuine and therefore this is simply asking for verification of qualifications that have been required for some time. Some good and even excellent teachers stand to lose their jobs and this is unfortunate. I had an Icelandic colleague whose English was better than many native speakers and she taught brilliantly. At the other end of the scale many more patently unqualified foreigners will be refused working visas. Recruitment is going to get harder but governments anywhere have the responsibility to build and constantly improve the education of their children. Protecting students at all ages and all levels against bogus foreign teachers is not a policy anyone can really argue against. As mentioned above eliminating fake foreign credentials may just be the start of the process since Chinese nationals can also present fake degrees and teaching qualifications.

From what I've learned this morning the only thing left is to see how the policy will be implemented. I was left in some doubt this morning about the necessity to return home. Fortunately, time is on my side but it would be bad for anyone to lose out due to unreasonable transition arrangements. Furthermore, while I am more convinced of the authenticity of this policy there is clearly a pressing need for official clarification.

vicar (817 posts) • 0

official clarification - lol
South Korea has been cutting down on western teachers from public schools since 2013 after improved quality teaching from locals has been exceeding that of foreigners, plus they are willing to work harder for less money - China heading same way
www.asiapundits.com/[...]

nnoble (889 posts) • 0

Official clarification? I see your point and don't expect anyone from Yunnan Education department to pop up on here and enlighten us but sooner or later, if this is genuine, someone will go through the process and hopefully come on here and spill the beans. Good story from South Korea, though my 'real' fully qualified French teacher and Paris native was always going to be better than a UK native teacher with French language skills.

vicar (817 posts) • 0

Teaching aside there are other skills required in a classroom of students. Furthermore, it is the attention parents demand and long term development considerations which I'm afraid only local teachers can offer (excluding foreigners settled for the long term).

nnoble (889 posts) • 0

Very true and those who've taken the time and made the effort to get qualified are more likely to stick around and see the job through to completion than a here today gone tomorrow individual simply grasping at an easy visa opportunity. Despite less than attractive pay the overwhelming majority of colleagues I've worked with over the last decade have been qualified and seen the job through to completion. Qualifications in themselves are no guarantee but on balance they do prove a certain level of commitment. I can't think of any valid arguments against this alleged new policy.

vicar (817 posts) • 0

Yes and the useless ones have now made it harder for that majority.

When a football team signs meaningless players just because they look like Ronaldo, you start to question the management, it's then the directors step in

JanJal (1244 posts) • 0

First of all I want to mention that I'm neither a teacher nor a native English speaker, and not a terrific student either.

But I always wonder, if and why a native English speaker would make a better teacher, than non-native person with the same formal qualifications?

After all, the non-native had to learn the language, so he must have some first hand experience in learning a second language.

Of course when it comes to spoken language training, a native speaker might be better in many cases.

But even then, I know many native British who have so fat accent (Scottish or whatever) that I would not put them close to a classroom in a foreign country - other than as proof why you may need exposure to many accents rather than the perfect English accent.

GoK Moderator (5096 posts) • 0

Most English course materials today have many accents in their audio recordings. This includes the non-native speaker accents. Because, in the real world, that is what students will hear.
A very strong advantage that a native teacher has is to be able to understand idiomatic language, metaphors, and fixed expressions. Many of which are loaded with cultural meaning. Many would not even be recognized by a non native speaker. There are too many idioms to try and teach them all, but if students come across them they can ask the teacher.
This use of idioms, etc. is not limited to literature. It also includes newspapers, magazines, and websites. There is also the subversion of the language for effect, in both spoken and written English. For example, in UK the 'C' word can be used as a term of affection, whereas in the US it is still pretty much the worst swear word, for many.
Some non-native speakers can recognize this, but only if they know the culture well, maybe have lived overseas, and developed cultural understanding.

To put the shoe on the other foot. I have had advanced learners of Chinese tell me that the Chinese only have one word for dog, as proof that the Chinese language has a limited vocabulary. When the truth is that they, the non-native Chinese speaker, have only learned/been taught one word for dog.

nnoble (889 posts) • 0

Here in China a Chinese English teacher may occasionally trump a native speaker when it comes to intricate detail of grammatical labels. They'll then insist on teaching this grammar without necessarily achieving the goal of getting the student to communicate and use the language successfully. The grammar mechanic can be like a good car mechanic who never needs a licence to drive and may even be a dangerous driver. English is spoken with many accents and we should all accept and live with that fact. The point about a language teacher having learnt a second language themselves is valid.

Slightly off topic, but shouldn't China relax the blinkered focus on teaching English? As businesses continue to expand overseas why not offer Chinese students a choice: Spanish, German, Arabic, Japanese, Russian, Dutch and the numerous languages of Africa? Sure English is often a common denominator but a Chinese doing business in Germany speaking fluent German has to be an advantage.

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