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What if China and America...

Geezer (1953 posts) • 0

@laotou: You said:

"Or since you're a disabled vet with early retirement benefits separate from my crappy virtually non-existent civilian benefits, and since you're living here - you don't need to pay taxes - not your problem, don't care? Sucks to be me?"

Just to clarify, I did not get early retirement from the military or anyone else. I spent a few years in Vietnam which is the source of my disability. I did retire, the first time, at age 58. In China, I retired a second time at age 67. My retirement income is self- financed plus social security. The VA determined I was poisoned by Agent Orange during my Vietnam service but that compensation began in 2015. The symptoms of my disability appeared at age 52, so for nearly 20 years I just accepted my damaged heart as bad luck. Now I am a cripple with limited mobility dependent on mobility devices and assistance from my sons. If you think the money I get from my disability was easily earned you out of your mind.

I am not in China now and it is unlikely I can get any kind of visa at my age, so return is unlikely.

China has set upon a course that is threatening and belligerent. Other nations are reacting, including the USA. Misreading Obama is dangerous. Thinking that fool, who has bowed to emperors and kings, and Hu Jintao as well, can get away with completely destroying the USA is a mistake.

I have a question for you. Have you ever considered your proudly, self proclaimed "arrogance" might have something to do with your perceived second class treatment in the US?

Alien (3819 posts) • 0

@Dudeson: When governments grow powerful, they always pull this kind of crap (US Government vs. Chinese governments in the S. China Sea) - those who man the institutions that control nations do not stop bullying when they grow powerful - nothing to do with 'growing up', which is a species-wide problem affecting us both individually and collectively (necessarily, BOTH). This is a paranoid, aggressive, competitively-exploitative world system we live under, and the relative behavior of the major players is the secondary issue. After the species gets though the current, exceedingly dangerous nonsense, there will be more, no matter who comes out on top for the present, and sooner or later the whole species will be up the spout. I think most of us will probably get through the present crisis, but sooner or later the statistical odds will turn against all of us.
Unless...
Bets wishes to everybody, and good luck for as long as that lasts. In the meantime, try to understand how we all feed the Machine and try not to contribute.
In case anybody wants to waste all our time and make this personal, I'm not claiming innocence.
@laotou: Nice rant - don't think we need any more of the same ilk, from anybody, but I have to admit that some of it was interesting.

The Dudeson's (1106 posts) • 0

also you should know.that although china claims those islands they are still in international water and international airspace. internationally recognized and agreed upon incl. china.

so imagine where it leads from there. you are not allowed, by prc...so whats next.

i don.t agree with most US policies. but they at least let you use airspace and waterways....without threatening you.

Alien (3819 posts) • 0

Question: Why doesn't anybody give a damn about the Filipinos, Vietnamese and Malaysians who are affected?

Geezer (1953 posts) • 0

In 2001, the US spy plane landed in Hainan. I had been in China but left about a week before. I was told by laowai friends that every white guy was sporting a Canadian or Brit T-shirt. Also heard tales of Caucasians being accosted on the street by Chinese and being asked to produce their passport.

During the 2005 anti-Japan riots quite a bit of property damage but few injuries.

The 2012 riots were different. There was quite a bit of violence, injuries and some deaths.

爱国无罪

In the unlikely event the US and China get to shooting at each other, I think things can get ugly. Best case would, for Americans, to be detained. If the US prevails it will really bad for Americans. If the US really slams China in the South China Sea and China tries to launch missiles at the US, kiss your ass goodbye. I understand the pre-Obama response called for a full on strike against the attacking country.

I would consider a few measures: a go bag, easy to carry and with a few clothes and toiletries and copies of your documents including next-of-kin information. You should also email this stuff to yourself and to a family member at home. Some cash could be helpful. ATM cards might be useless. If there is an evacuation or deportation, just go. Take care of yourself. Stuff you try to take will slow you down.

Geezer (1953 posts) • 0

Arguing who is right or wrong is pointless and a waste of time. The old men that decide to go to war don't give a crap about us.

I think China sees a weak and gutless Obama but he will be gone about 20 months. Taking advantage of a soft US, short of shooting, makes sense to me.

nnoble (889 posts) • 0

There won't be a war. Furthermore, we owe it to the younger generations not to burden them with the fear that war will happen. There could well be incidents caused by trigger happy idiots further down the food chain but they'd be managed. If you really insist on 'what if' scenarios, then in the very long run up to the event, my guess is that foreigners would be strongly and reasonably politely encouraged to leave in order to help in the management of the home crowd. Talk of internment and ugly forced deportations are just more titilation for the excitable.

Slightly off point: is it my imagination or do more citizens of the USA have a greater paranoia about their importance to the security services than citizens of other lands. Or is it simply the few that are affected are more prone to delusions of grandeur? I worked with an, otherwise likeable, American in Guizhou who believed he was being followed by the FBI. He was clearly cuckoo but we managed his condition with copious supplies of coffee.

laotou (1714 posts) • 0

@geezer
I'm glad the VA FINALLY recognized agent orange derived illnesses - shamefully long overdue. I can only wish you well as your body begins to fail - and I apologize if it appeared I marginalized your service - that is never an intention and I have never knowingly showed disrespect to any serving or retired service member.

As for arrogance - it's nothing to do over-compensation for being a second class citizen of Chinese descent. As a Chinese descent, working in a white-man's world - I was raised to strive to be better if not the best, because I have to compete racially, to survive or excel. So, actually, I was raised with the perception that I was physically crippled because of my race - that being said - I was also raised to be proud of my heritage and to always remember, that when a WHITE American looks at me - he doesn't see an American, he sees a Chinese guy, who speaks english. This has been and continues to be my professional experience, from over 30 years working in and managing professional industry with multinational US corporations. I get that "look" and "feeling" when I meet black, hispanic, and white americans. My experience with Chinese Americans - they try to tear each other down professionally. I've NEVER knowingly participated in such activities - I was actually pretty naive when younger. Japanese American professionals - they tend to help each other. I saw this same behavior in Chinese communities in the USA - well, ok...california. My father's goal was to weld the chinese community together into a politically cohesive force - ostensibly to benefit the chinese american community AND to spread Chinese culture in the USA - to build a bridge of cultural understanding. When we are more familiar and accepting of other cultures - there's less opportunity for misunderstandings and potentially incendiary incidents.

Arrogance is an issue of perception. An expert on history might be perceived as arrogant when critiquing a particular point in history, until it's discovered that the teacher is perhaps eminently qualified to his/her opinion. I am an unparalleled expert at what I do - currently, a legend in my own mind.

My "arrogance" arose from professional ability. I use the word arrogant, because that's generally how I'm perceived.

I'm a control freak - because in today's world of accounting and contract fraud, I cannot and will not permit fraud. So I come across as arrogant, overbearing. tyrannical - and I don't care. Those investments are my responsibility to return in a profitable, professional, and diligent manner.

When I started my career, it was to sow death, destruction and misery on a global scale, in the interest of liberty and freedom for all. I accomplished that goal many times over.

Now, in the twilight of my life - I want to do something different - to make this world a better place to live, both for myself (and, ostensibly you, somehow) and for my wife and children, after I'm long gone. I'd prefer to go out of this life with a legacy of construction, as opposed to destruction. I'm guessing that's how the makers of the first atomic bomb probably felt, in some small manner, although I'm not even close to that level of talent - but, different fields, different markets, different specialities.

@nnoble
The reason we're paranoid is because our government is spying on us - that's a known fact. Google captures everything you do, that passes through their servers. In fact, google was recently punished for inserting trojan horses into Apple's Safari web browser, to surf all your cookies - including those unrelated to google. So much for the company motto of "do no evil".

I know I'm under light surveillance, because - just for kicks - I compare my passport renewal or add pages times to those of the guy next to me. My passport activities require a call back to the US State Department - somewhere in the USA. The guy next to me (usually a white US family/business guy) - his passport things are done in a few minutes - I am consistently a 20+ minute transaction. I pay attention to stupid things like that for entertainment AND I was trained annually to be aware of espionage and counter-espionage activities - so I was trained to be paranoid - occupational hazard.

nnoble (889 posts) • 0

'The reason we're paranoid is because our government is spying on us'. So? Do you think other governments aren't. I'm pretty sure, and hope, the British intelligence services are carrying out a suitable level of surveillance, otherwise how do they carry out their prime responsibility of defence of the realm? I don't have any undue paranoia or anxieties about this. I also understand government, press and people have to work hard to find an acceptable balance.
You state: 'I know I'm under light surveillance, because - just for kicks...' So you are a self-confessed trouble maker. What sort of treatment do you expect, a smile and a Christmas card!

There's a high degree of cooperation between countries when it comes to protecting against international crime, terrorism and people with suspect loyalties. There is a far greater understanding between leaders than they care to admit in public. If you have a track record of disloyalty, that makes you potentially untrustworthy in anyone's eyes, let alone the security services. No amount of fawning adoration for your selected place of temporary settlement is going to completely eradicate the ever present suspicion that there is a fundamental flaw always ready to rise to the surface when circumstances don't suit you. And you have admitted you are just too bloody difficult to please. All sounds like self-inflicted injuries to me. On the other hand, they may not give a fig about you and you can't stand the idea of being seen as Mr Ordinary - just another one among 9 billion others.

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