Let's go for a controversial thread for once,, God knows this site could use one. :-) "Kunming" can easily be replaced by "China" if you prefer.

1. People spit everywhere and all the time.

2. The traffic is getting worse and worse.

3. A kid is one thing but I've seen grownups taking a dump in the street too.

4. The Lets-all-get-together-and-puke-our-guts-out gatherings in Kundu every morning from 3 to 5 AM.

5. Seeing people beating up their girlfriend in the street and noone does anything about it.

6. Seeing people fighting in the 5-v-1 style and noone stops untill the guy is near to death.

7. Taxi drivers having no clue where to go unless you put on a hefty Kunminghua dialect.

8. The women with a rent-a-kid on their backs grabbing your arm and screaming insults if you don't give them money.

9. The amount of thieves.

10. The way people look at you if you are walking together with a Chinese girl.

I gotta say I kinda like this city though,, I much prefer it to Beijing or one of the other cities I've seen in China. It's definately not the worst place you can be in the world :-)

I guess not just KunMing:

The constant distorted noise of music through broken speakers (seems to be a sound-ideal) blaring from every other shop.

If the above is not enough: the blaring out of sales-pitches, impossible to hear what they say because of the sound-ideal of distortion or broken speakers.

That EVERYthing must be through a speaker, so even a fairly nice Erhu player playing on the square ruins the sound of his Erhu by playing it through a bad speaker even though there is no real need, turning what would be a pleasant experience to a distorted menace.

No insulation, central heating or double-glased windows (or windows that fit so bad they cant close) during the late autumn to mid spring, so you need to wear coat and mittens indoors, as the indoor temperature is the same as the out door temperature.

They way some smile so politely while blatantly ripping you off big time. The nicer the smile, the bigger the rip-off.

All the professional beggars operating on JinMaBiJi Square. And the fact that they actually thus make people ignorant of the _real_ beggars, who are actually down and out and need a helping hand when you happen to meet them around the corner. (Seems almost like the square is a professional territory and they make sure to keep the real beggars off "their" turf and to the side streets).

All the low-life foreigners giving us foreigners a bad rep.

Is there a positive objective to this discussion? Or is it simply a venue to be objectionable? Why not get out there and enjoy what is!

As to Danmairen:
1. Try East LA where the winos puke all over the sidewalk
2. Traffic?? again, try LA
3. Where - - I haven't seen that (been here 2 yrs)
4. If you slept fm 11:00 pm to 5:00 am wouldn't have that problem
5. Watching people beat up their girlfriend - - did you "just watch" or did you do something about it?
6. See #5
7. I have no problem with taxis - - and if I'm in doubt I'll have someone write it down before i go out
8. You must go different places than we go - - no problem
9. World-wide problem. Try the muggers with guns and knives
10. I walk with a "Chinese girl" all the time (my wife) well, she's a classy beautiful lady so folks pay no attention to me!!

AND - - if you fins a perfect place, let me know - - but don't put on this site because all those "low lifes" will then go there.

In the spirit of things - - I must remark that I am 71 years old - - retired U.S. Navy SEAL - - and I've seen LOTS of bad places and people in the world - - and I like Kunming.

Cheers - - JJ

There are some annoying aspects of this city of course, here are a few more:

1. People carefully checking traffic only from one side of the road while crossing when there is only traffic coming from the other.

2. The Guandu dialect (shivers)

3. All-knowing-foreigners that have been in China for about a year and now feel as if a part of the culture, thus telling you the truth about Chinese people and how to reach success in China. All served with a smug grin on their faces. They usually have a Chinese fiancee and claims to know more Kunminghua than Putonghua. (I was probably one of those before too)

4. People that constantly smokes everywhere... toilet, elevator, restaurants, bars etc.

5. The beggar you just handed your last kuai to receives a call on his cellphone as he thanks you for it.

6. Children collecting bottles for grownups or begging money on the street for their "mother"

7. Old-fashioned Chinese thinking that really messes up a conversation completely and leave you with a feeling that you really can't say anything to something that so completely lacks reason and logic.

8. The family of peasants that stands in the middle of a crossing all smiling and without any sense of what to do in traffic.

9. Traffic jam in the bike lanes.

10. The fact that you actually starts staring at other foreigners and feel uncomfortable at Salvadors because there are so many "laowai" there. (Happened to me the other day and I kind of wonder when in the world I got so used to Chinese people that I actually don't hang around with foreigners anymore.)

All said with a smile though people. I love the fact that this city is so disordered. Sometimes it annoys me but most of the time it just amuse me.

Now write to your local Senator and Congressperson to express your personal experience with China so they can remember that China is still a backward, developing country despite the glitz of Shanghai, Beijing, and Canton, and that there there are much more pressing issues to the Chinese then human rights, copyrights, or whatever the issue of the month is...

In all seriousness, there is no Shangri-la....unless you been to Zhongdian, wink wink. Even in the most advanced countries in Europe or the US, there will be things that are not so nice, it's the human condition. Even in the Star Trek Universe where there is no money and everyone pursue ventures for the greater good of mankind, there's still the Klingons, Romulans, and the Borg to deal with.

Yes, those things you've listed are annoying and I too get frustrated with the traffic but take it in stride, look at the positives and I'm sure you'll be much happier.

BTW, what's point of stirring up controversy? It's usually used to stir up public sentiment so that the people can take action to remedy the said ailments. This is China...the PSB is everywhere...careful that they don't come knocking. (Satire intended)

I just feel bad for that poor girl that Danmairen is walking together with.

I can balance the scale a bit if you'd like:

1. The climate is nice and comfy
2. The food is good and cheap
3. Housing is affordable
4. The lifestyle is relaxed
5. The girls are hot and approachable :-)
6. Most of the people I've met are nice and friendly
7. You can smoke without people beating you up
8. Taxis are cheap and all around if you need one (very different from my country), so are busses.
9. Vendors generally don't try to rip you off, Beijing sucks to that extent.
10. Kunming is probably one of the best tier 2 cities to live in in China.

#3 made me laugh so hard!!! (from the original post) I have witnessed the same thing...haha. Still laughing!!!