@laotou

Hope is eternal and ignorance is bliss.

We each have our own viewpoints and nothing you and I say can turn the other around. I think you and I know who the other is in real life and I do like you. And again, no disrespect, our viewpoints are simply different and no academic debate can change reality.

I will agree with you however, that the students in HK, much like those back '89, are and were too idealistic to be pragmatic and of any use to solve the problem. They can accomplish nothing other than to make the situation even worse. What they need to do is to protest against the rich business conglomerates from colluding with the PRC first, before they can tackle the PRC. As always, the students are being used a pawns by others to achieve their own political gains.

Anyway, wish you a happy national day, I will celebrate my 9 days from today. ;P

@Tonyoad: seems to me the land of Taiwan belongs to the people who live on the land, like everybody else.
@Laotou: How do you know that the government of China IS the Chinese people?
Protesting the rich business conglomerates that collude with the

i thought they were protesting because the iphone 6 shipped a day late.

great photographs by an aussie photographer of the dense housing...
www.fastcoexist.com/[...]

...collude with the PRC is a good idea, but then protesting the rich business conglomerates that collude with (read: have overwhelming influence with) ANY government is a good idea.

@Alien

You are glossing over the idea of national sovereignty. Surely you can't be arguing for the idea that just because I "own" the land that I am living on, I am not incumbent toward some sort of national government?

@tony
Yep - we agree we're diametrically opposite - but that's ok...important to have opinions from opposite spectrums in order to achieve some kind of win-win middle ground.

@alien
Because if the government doesn't fence the people in, the world would suffer from a global economic collapse and social ills from an unleashed mass mankind hasn't seen since China's last push west several centuries ago.

As for the HK students - where was all this democracy crap during the British reign...in an incredibly evil way, I kind of hope they get what they ask for - in part hopeful that life will be better, but more realistically - so they can seriously burn their fingers as a lesson to all students to THINK before they leap onto protest bandwagons.

In their defense - they seek loftier goals than when I was in college - our big protest 40 years ago was to allow beer sales on campus...

For a taste of China unleashed, look at the milk scandals, gutter oil, etc...

Some may find the following of interest: www.globalresearch.ca/[...]

@baoandi

That's disturbing, but not at all surprising. The US likes to meddle in other countries' affairs and has funded anything anti-China for more than 60 years.

on th subject of agendas seems like everyone has onel rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca
'While many of Globalresearch's articles discuss legitimate humanitarian or environmental concerns, the site has a strong undercurrent of reality warping throughout its pages, especially in relation to taking its news from sources such as Russia Today. Its view of science, the economy and geopolitics seems to be broadly conspiracist.'Whenever someone makes a remarkable claim and cites Globalresearch, they are almost certainly wrong.'

@Tonyoad: you are responsible for the actions of any government you choose. It's the choosing part that's not clear here.